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Discussion Starter #101
What was surprising to me had nothing to do with the technical details of the self-adjusting brakes, it's that Christian at OKP claimed he'd never heard of such a thing. They currently list only one type of front cylinders (sold as a set), which I assumed were the early manual-adjusting types. It turns out that the ones OKP lists are the later self-adjusting (although Christian disclaims knowledge of such). I am certain OKP used to list both types, but maybe not. I've been wrong before, the last time being this morning.

Mine may be rebuildable. I haven't taken them apart yet. That'll probably happen later tonight, or tomorrow.

I dropped off the first load of powder coating work at the coater. We had a good laugh

Tomorrow I hope to box up a bunch of stuff to ship to various vendors, wheelwright, Lionel Velez, chromer, etc.

I feel a nap coming on...

BTW - watch BAT for a 10204 project appearing soon. I'm helping a fellow organize the auction for this project. Should be fun to watch.
 

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Don, posted this on the 2000T New Project thread but wanted to come back here as well. I believe this might be the site you are looking for that has an assortment of badging for old Italian cars. . I didn't look thru it to see if it had what you needed though but I'm going to guess they can source it if they don't already have the script you're looking for:

Black Barts Emporium, Inc
 

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Discussion Starter #103
Auto adjusting brakes.... Really????

Got some work done last night and today, but not as much as I'd like. Still, daily progress.

I've always been told that the later style brakes on the 102 were auto-adjusting, and a few of you have remarked how you like having auto-adjusting brakes.

I can see no evidence of a system on these late brakes that would result in automatic adjustment.

These rear late-version brakes appear much like the early version, except for the large, silver hex head on the shoe body. The function of that escapes me. Still, there is the square-headed adjuster that allows a crude sort of adjustment periodically, via rotation from flat spot to flat spot while the tapered plunger gradually separates the shoes a little, taking up for wear.

The late model front brakes have their two cylinders located fore and aft, whereas the early are top and bottom. There is a rotating pin that goes through the "tang" at the back of the cylinders which rotates a sort of scroll-shaped expander when the rectangular tang on the head of the pin is rotated. It is kept from rotating on its own by a little gear under the nut that is gripped by a sort of "C" shaped circlip. I see this assembly as just being a different sort of manual adjuster.

Can anyone explain where the idea of auto-adjusting 102 brakes came from, and how they might work if they actually do? Also, what do those bloody big hex-headed things do, assuming they do anything? Maybe one removes them to make brake shoe assembly easier?
 

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Hex Heads, purpose... with a stationary lug wrench you could theoretical put a moment on the hex thus turning the brake shoe in the direction increasing the spring tension to release the shoe that is otherwise pried on in cars like Giuliettas with a large lever. At least that is what my theory is. A shop manual would probably confirm this with photos as typical for Alfa.
 

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Discussion Starter #105
My aging memory recalls seeing a brake manual for the second-gen brakes. I think it was part of a 2000 Sprint supplement, but I've not found anything that matches this memory.

The problem with your theory is that the hex-head thingos rotate if you turn on them with a wrench.
 

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Can you post a picture of the backside of the shoes?
 

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I've always been told that the later style brakes on the 102 were auto-adjusting, and a few of you have remarked how you like having auto-adjusting brakes.


I see this assembly as just being a different sort of manual adjuster.
Don, I totally agree and can clearly see that your environmentally friendly (well they are green) brakes are manually adjusting, like mine. They are just different, in that your adjusting 'snails' operate on the back of your wheel cylinders and have a different sort of actuator to turn for the adjustment. The snail adjusters on my brakes react against a pin on my brake shoes, probably like your other car's.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #109 (Edited)
I'll get some pics of the back side of the shoes tomorrow. Gym sort of whupped my behind this afternoon, so I'm off for horizontalness.

The tub is stripped of anything that can be removed. At least, I thought so until I'd cleaned my hands and was walking out of the shop, and noticed one "Touring construction placard", and the left rear axle support strap hanging down. They'll be off in 5 minutes tomorrow.

The steel for the rotisserie has arrived, and will be fetched to the casa tomorrow morning. Construction might begin immediately, although I've been putting off finishing the Cub Amphib annual far too long. With temps down in the 20s and wind gusts across the ridges at up to 120mph, the hangar doors may be the only thing flying tomorrow.

I picked up the first load from the powder coater, and dropped off another. There will be many, many loads to go.

I'm looking forward to having the tub up on the rotator. Somehow, that seems like an important inflection point in the process.

Oh, I got a reply from Valeria at the museo in response to my nudge. After apologizing, she promised to get me an answer tomorrow. C'mon Grigio Biacca, but it's already obvious to me that this was the original color. The real mystery will be what the interior is listed to have been.
 

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Got some work done last night and today, but not as much as I'd like. Still, daily progress.

I've always been told that the later style brakes on the 102 were auto-adjusting, and a few of you have remarked how you like having auto-adjusting brakes.

I can see no evidence of a system on these late brakes that would result in automatic adjustment.

These rear late-version brakes appear much like the early version, except for the large, silver hex head on the shoe body. The function of that escapes me. Still, there is the square-headed adjuster that allows a crude sort of adjustment periodically, via rotation from flat spot to flat spot while the tapered plunger gradually separates the shoes a little, taking up for wear.

The late model front brakes have their two cylinders located fore and aft, whereas the early are top and bottom. There is a rotating pin that goes through the "tang" at the back of the cylinders which rotates a sort of scroll-shaped expander when the rectangular tang on the head of the pin is rotated. It is kept from rotating on its own by a little gear under the nut that is gripped by a sort of "C" shaped circlip. I see this assembly as just being a different sort of manual adjuster.

Can anyone explain where the idea of auto-adjusting 102 brakes came from, and how they might work if they actually do? Also, what do those bloody big hex-headed things do, assuming they do anything? Maybe one removes them to make brake shoe assembly easier?
Looks somewhat like a Benz or even Fiat setup. The hex thing is part of a friction device that hold the brake shoe from returning fully. The hole in the shoe is larger than the body of the hex thing so some movement is possible. The hex thing fits over a post and the clearance between the 2 allows the shoe to retract slightly. As used by Benz, Fiat, and my own similar contraption for an RX-2 Mazda, it works quite well.
Or it might be something else.
Take it apart so we all can be enlightened.
 

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Don,
As you have the tub stripped it is may be easy for you to see where this part (to old the exhaust silencer) is welded on the body ? :

IMG_3583.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #112
There is no such thing welded to the body.

There is a bracket that bolts the the rear of the transmission, and extends towards the left where it clamps to the exhaust pipe.

The rear of the exhaust hangs from a rubber isolator that is attached to, I think, the forward track rod connection point.

I'll get some pics for you later.
 

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There is no such thing welded to the body.

There is a bracket that bolts the the rear of the transmission, and extends towards the left where it clamps to the exhaust pipe.

The rear of the exhaust hangs from a rubber isolator that is attached to, I think, the forward track rod connection point.

I'll get some pics for you later.
I believe there's a bracket welded to the body, at about a 45 degree angle, next to the spare wheel well, supporting the 3rd muffler and exhaust tip.

13011019_39 (markup).jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #115
Don,

What you describe is to old the exhaust on the green circle.

A assume the part on picture is to old the exhaust on the red circle.
I do not understand what you are saying.

Tubut is correct there is a third support for the tail piece of the exhaust. It, and the one forward of the spare tire well, are attach points for rubber hangers that bolt to tabs on the exhaust.
 

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Sorry Don, the picture was not enclosed . It is the case now.

Ruedy,

Your picture help a lot. The part would be there.

13011019_39 (markup).jpg

More detail will be very helpfull.
 

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Serge, not to take Don's thread too far off topic, but I believe the bracket you showed above (in post #116) was actually attached to the 2nd muffler, not the body (as shown in the first picture of a NOS 2600 exhaust below). Judging from the pasts catalog pages, the bracket for the 3rd muffler attached to the body on 102 cars also seems to have 2 attachments points for 2 rubber pieces (possibly the same or similar to 106 cars, where my 2nd picture is from).

DSC01249 (700 wide).jpg

DSC01352 (7000 wide).jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #119
Mark,

No, I don't think I got an email from you.

To others...

I don't mind thread digressions. Such objections seem to degrade the collegial nature of this BB at its best.
 

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Discussion Starter #120
PS70

My thought is that the original picture of the bracket, held in your hand, appears to be much larger than any bracket I've seen on a 102, or a muffler.

Is the item near your hand rubber or steel? If rubber, I suppose the bracket could be cut off of a muffler, but it still looks too large.
 
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