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Discussion Starter #1
My RH 72'' Gt 1600 Junior Pride and joy.
my voorkant 2.jpg
Bertone Amante "Bertone mistress" has been in family here in SA since I was born as my uncle's student car in 1990.

I worked on my car myself with help from a workshop manual. Removed gearbox myself and got it redone as the car had been given to me as a gift.
Got my license in this beaut 1st time 09 January 2009 . It was the best motoring experience in my life and how many people can say their first car was an Alfa and even learned to drive in one.

It's been a year going 2 since bike accident leaving me disabled chest down. Limited hand but full wrist and arm function.

I posted a while back on the import of a 145 automatic but decided to work with what I have.

I am planning to do an auto conversion with twin dial 1750gtv dial center console as I have the 1600 dash witch is same as mentioned.(Don't worry would make it look as standard as possible).I'M Going to use the shift-plate of the 2000Gtv center console on the 1750 console.
alfa_giulia_1750_gtv_interior.jpg 10042011223.jpg

The heavy (park not driving steering) is going to be sorted by using EPAS mod like shown here by someone here on BB on his V6 spider conversion.
EPASColumnsetup.jpg InCarEPAS.jpg

I sourced a whole auto ZF alfa gearbox(flexplate,pedal,torque converter and kickdown cable).2000L engine + oil cooler for autobox.
1)What else is needed?
2)Would the standard 1600 diff-ratio and prop-shaft be efficient?

I know it's a sad sad story to convert a manual to an auto but it's cheaper than buying an auto and I refuse to DRIVE ANYTHING ELSE:D
Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

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71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
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I can't say about the mechanicals but do support what you are trying to do, good luck and keep at, anything is possible!
 

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Let me begin by saying that I know nothing about Alfas with automatics. But I do know something about converting between 1600-1750-2000 engines and manual transmissions. Based on what I know:

- It might be tough to mate an automatic to your 1600 engine. A) the bolt pattern on the crankshaft flange won't match the holes in a torque plate intended for a 2000. B) an automatic designed to work with an EFI 2000 won't match the torque profile of a carbureted 1600, so the auto will be shifting at the wrong points. Best solution would be to install a 2000 automatic drivetrain from the engine through the differential.

- Alfa installed a lower ratio differential on spiders with automatics, reducing the ratio from 4.11 to 3.XX. If your 1600 has a 4.56, you will probably need a lower numerical ratio diff for the transmission to shift at the right times.

- I have no idea what length driveshaft will work. Since GT's have longer wheelbases than spiders, the shaft from a 1990's 2L spider automatic donor car will be too short. I don't know if your 1600 GT shaft will be right. Local driveshaft shops can shorten/lengthen.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Let me begin by saying that I know nothing about Alfas with automatics. But I do know something about converting between 1600-1750-2000 engines and manual transmissions. Based on what I know:

- It might be tough to mate an automatic to your 1600 engine. A) the bolt pattern on the crankshaft flange won't match the holes in a torque plate intended for a 2000. B) an automatic designed to work with an EFI 2000 won't match the torque profile of a carbureted 1600. Best solution would be to install a 2000 automatic drivetrain from the engine through the differential.

- I have no idea what length driveshaft will work. Since GT's have longer wheelbases than spiders, the shaft from your 1990's 2L spider automatic donor car will be too short. I don't know if your 1600 GT shaft will be right. Local driveshaft shops can shorten/lengthen.
Hi sorry I'm using an alfa 2000 engine with another 2000 alfa autobox. What I really want to know is would the 2000 engine and autobox be suitable for 1600 differential?

Thank you in advance.
 

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Hi sorry I'm using an alfa 2000 engine with another 2000 alfa autobox. What I really want to know is would the 2000 engine and autobox be suitable for 1600 differential?
I did comment on that. My guess is "no".

Anyone know the differential ratio used in automatic spiders? Seems that I recall that it was numerically lower than the 4.11's used on manuals of the same era. Nic probably has a 4.56 in his junior, so I doubt that will be compatible with the automatic's shift map.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I did comment on that. My guess is "no".

Anyone know the differential ratio used in automatic spiders? Seems that I recall that it was numerically lower than the 4.11's used on manuals of the same era. Nic probably has a 4.56 in his junior, so I doubt that will be compatible with the automatic's shift map.
Thank you alfa jay. So what you say is that engine would rev too high/late or to low/early before the box would shift?
 

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Thank you alfa jay. So what you say is that engine would rev to high or to low before the box would shift?
Your automatic transmission doesn't know how fast the car is going; it just knows how fast the engine is turning (its input) and the speed of the driveshaft (its output), and uses that information to determine when to shift. The differential ratio relates engine rpm to vehicle speed. So the problem might not be so simple as the transmission shifting when the engine was revving too high/low - it would be that it would shift when the car was going too fast/slow.

Honestly, if you are going through all of the effort to swap an EFI 2L + automatic gearbox into an earlier chassis, including fabricating a console as well as performing the electrical and mechanical work, the additional task of swapping a differential will be a minor part of the whole project.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
O ok I get it. Hypothetically speaking when using the (1600) 4.56 diff would it shift when the car is going fast or going slow?
 

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O ok I get it. Hypothetically speaking when using the (1600) 4.56 diff would it shift when the car is going fast or going slow?
slow

The differential ratio measures how many times the driveshaft has to turn to produce one rotation of the axles. So, a higher numerical ratio diff requires the engine to be turning faster to achieve a given vehicle speed. So if the auto trans wants to shift at 4,000 rpm (say), your car would be going slower at that speed with a 4.56 than it would with a 3.XX.

That might not be the end of the world - if you really don't want to do a differential transplant, you could try it with the 4.56 and see how it behaves. The diff swap could be done later. I was just assuming that given the quantity of parts you will need, that the easiest way to obtain all of the bits would be to get a complete, automatic spider as a donor. If you did it that way, you would get the proper differential.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That might not be the end of the world - if you really don't want to do a differential transplant, you could try it with the 4.56 and see how it behaves. The diff swap could be done later.
Thanks allot. You've been a great help as that was the biggest worry. Will try that and see.
 

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Hi Nic

Welcome aboard the BB, sorry to hear of your accident.

In answer to your question re the 1600 diff suitability with the auto box, the short answer is definitely not.

The auto diff is a very long or tall ratio from memory it is 3.08 to 1

Many years ago a friend of mine bought a 1300 GT Junior which had been fitted with an auto diff, it would do 120kph/75mph in second gear, but could not get out of the driveway without a push. A stock 4.555 unit was installed & the auto box went to someone wanting a long ratio for highway cruising.

When I first got into Alfa's I looked at buying an Auto 2 litre and converting it to manual, I decided to rather source a manual, the auto box is a ZF 3 speed unit, & to fit this, the Factory altered the transmission tunnel sheet metal & the propshaft is also a different length.

I have some pictures of auto GTV's - send me a private message & I'll send them onto you

Cheers
Greig
PE - the Windy City
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Pm sent.If finding a Complete auto box wasn't hard enough. Now I need to find a prop shaft and diff as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Ok so I got some news don't know if it's good news. Got front prop shaft from autobox dougnut to the universal joint. Does anybody know if the back prop-shaft is the same as manual(from diff to the universal joint)or do I need that one as well from the auto?
 

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Richard Jemison
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Driveshaft

If you have a 2 liter front shaft that is the correct length (from trans to the silentblock or intermediate bearing support, then it should be easy to find the rear section (with slip joint) to fit from Axle to the Front sections U-joint mount.
Measure the length and call Larry at APE with the info. If GVV 2 liter wont fit, then get one from a 2 liter Berlina and shorten in. Most machine shops can do it.

The R&P on an Automatic is 3.73. The 2 liter flange bolts are larger than the one on the GTJr. They can be drilled out to match, But swapping a 2 liter 4.10 would give you better drivability, and LSD.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thank you Alfar7. With that almost sorted. Looking to find (hens teeth) Auto diff here in S.A. Almost every tom,dick and harry here likes to use it in their datsun's,escort's and toyota's due to drag-racing mods. Dam sacrilege:mad:
 

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My car is the second picture you have shown at the start of your thread I know that the tunnel on mine is bigger than the manual tunnel, I have a spare diff, auto gearbox and prop shaft. The diff is also for some reason a limited slip diff, same as I currently run in my car.:)
 

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I wonder if looking at a modern auto box might be an even better option (maybe from a BMW?). I realise it will not be as easy conversion but there are some 6 speed auto boxes now I believe, and this might be a better match to the peppy Alfa motor, and maybe make it possible to retain (if you want) the original 1600 and the original diff ratio.

Just wondering, and best of luck.
Pete
ps: Don't stress about driveshafts, very easy to sort out. If necessary just take the gearbox output flange to a driveshaft specialist and the length you want the driveshaft to be and the old Alfa shaft to a driveshaft specialist ... by the end of the day they will have reconfigured your old shaft so it fits and its not expensive (at least in New Zealand when I did these sorts of things). The easiest part of any engine/gearbox conversion.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi PSK thank you for the insigh,but I don't think I'll go that route now but definitely at a later stage when I have a secondary car. But then I'm going big. Alfa 6 v6 automatic with the rear suspension transplanted that's going to burn rubber and that old busso 12v sound is Amazing :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ok so car was delivered today. A BIT PISSED:mad: as they packed everything in the car. Just hope the seats and dash didn't get ripped.
Luckily I'm finished with them.
IMG-20120224-00387.jpg
 
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