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Discussion Starter #1
I'm trying help a friend resolve several electric problems on a '92 Veloce S4. The list of problems is long:

- Car starts, runs and drives well (it needs a tune up)...idle is at 900 rpm
- Instrument cluster shows only 4 (four) indicator lights when the ignition is turned on: Battery, seatbelt, water temp, and check engine....No Airbag light comes on and no other lights..all of them go off shortly after engine starts...Shouldn't there be more lights upon start-up??
- Speedo and odometer do not work...The tach works fine...
- No power windows, no power mirrors, no radio, no turn signals (no indicators on cluster either), no hazard function and hazard indicator, no emergency brake light,
- headlights and brights work fine and their indicators on cluster work fine


Checked ALL the fuses and they all appear to be fine....I have not cleaned any of the contacts yet but that will be next....However I'm a bit concerned with the amount of electric components that don't seem to work...I'm wondering if there's a central grounding point under the dash or elsewhere that I need to check first...It's strange that all of these components listed above do not work...The Airbag and speedo/odometer problems could be expensive to fix if they turn out to be faulty.

Any suggestion(s) as to what to troubleshoot first?? I really don't know how long ago any of the fuses were replaced but to the naked eye they appear to be fine...I'm not sure how to check the relays for proper operation.

Thanks in advance for your time.

VK
87 Spider
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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In the Alfa world, if the car isn't on fire then the electrical issue isn't "major".

The airbag is a separate system from all the others, so troubleshoot that one separately. Yes the light should come on. The box is under the parcel shelf behind the driver's seat: check to make sure all three plugs are plugged in. If they are then likely you'll find the previous owner removed the bulb in the dash because the system kept faulting.

More info here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/spider-1966-up/5791-anybody-have-old-posting-reseting-airbag-light-spider.html

Grounds are a possibility, but it seems like a lot of the issues seem to be related to the center console (mirrors, radio, e-brake, windows...) IIRC the e-brake light is just a single wire that grounds at the e-brake, so the fact that it's out suggests that it might be more of a general center console wiring problem than a ground problem. Perhaps a connector is loose somewhere behind the console.

I'll take a look at the wiring diagram tomorrow when I'm more conscious and see if I can come up with any clever ideas.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the suggestions...

Is there a trick to remove the center console to check for the wiring connections??

VK
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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You might just be able to remove the carpet panels along the center console in the footwells. Between that and taking out the radio and the center three-vent plastic piece you should be able to get to a lot of the wiring. For details beyond that you're really going to want the service manual as it is non-trivial. CarDisc International Ltd. - Home Page has them.

Looks like most of the services go through connectors G84a and G84b which are probably somewhere behind the center stack. The grounds I know of under the dash are one on each side, in front of the doors, up underneath the knee bolster along the outside of the passenger compartment. Single screw with a bunch of black wires. If you lean way underneath you should see it.

What's the story on this car? Did this happen suddenly or did your friend buy it recently? Any idea what might have been done to it in the past?
 

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Trained (ex)Professional, , 1953-2018 RIP,
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Checked ALL the fuses and they all appear to be fine....
Appearances can be deceiving. I would check both sides of each fuse with a test light or voltmeter. Fuses 1-5 should be hot with the key off. If not, clean the connections in the junction box located on the left inner fender. Fuses 6-8 should be hot with the key on.
Are they?
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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Always a smart idea, Jim.

The thing that seems strange to me: I'd suspect something with the ignition switch, but the hazard lights should have power even with the switch off. So he's having issues with both switched and unswitched +12V.

Oh, and be sure to disconnect the battery before you clean/touch that junction box.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for the wiring ground locations...I will make an attempt to remove the carpeting on the side of the console and see what I can find out....I've already taken out the door window switches, the hazard switch and the power mirror switch...They appear to be connected fine.

The history behind this 92 Spider is unknown...it was purchased in an auction and obviously there are plenty of electrical issues to sort out...However, the major mechanical components are in good working order (this Spider runs and drives well and has good compression). It does not appear to have been in any accidents and has no major rust areas....The rear plastic window is busted and the interior is in good condition. But it's a major pain not been able to open the windows - the speedo and odometer are not working and has a possible Airbag malfunction. Other than that it was a cheap buy...

My friend just put an order for the Service Manual...In the meantime we'll keep on digging...Your help is much appreciated.

VK
87 Spider
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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Hell, if it runs well and has no rust and a decent interior you've got a better car than about 95% of the Spiders out there.

Yeah, the S4 airbag system is problematic but that's probably a separate issue. They fault out a lot and people get fed up and disable them. Probably fixable reasonably easily.

Likely the speedo/odometer are a separate issue too. If I had to guess on that either I'd say a bad speedo unit or a bad speedo sender. They moved the sender to near the exhaust on the S4, and while it has a heat shield I suspect they just tend to bake and die from the heat.
 

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Trained (ex)Professional, , 1953-2018 RIP,
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I've already taken out the door window switches, the hazard switch and the power mirror switch...
Not to sound like Johnny Raincloud here but to me, disassembling the console before checking the fuses is like stirring the can of paint after painting the fence.
Testing for power at the fuses is the first thing to do. If power, then move on to other stuff.
 
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