[jrreeve]

Hey guys, looking at a 164S close to my house and am having a tough time wrestling the decision to buy. I think i can get the price where I need it but its got a bad water pump, which really doesn't let me get into it at all. When I was able to drive it, less that 2 mins, the clutch felt a little wierd (soft maybe, like it didn't want to come up that fast). All indications were that this car was well cared for over its life, seats and in great shape, paint is beautiful, new exhaust system and almost all the electronics work (including the stepper motor and all windows).

Should i even be looking at this thing still? What i'm afraid of is getting into a car and having to do a clutch and a water pump (and timing belt, adjustment, etc...).

Any thoughts? How big a deal is the clutch? Could it be a master cylinder or is it likely the actual clutch itself? Should i just walk away?

Thanks!

Rob
'84 GTV6

 

[Zunige]

I would not be afraid to buy a car that has been well-cared for, because it needs routine maintenance. A key question really is, how many miles? And are these city or highway miles? That should give you an indication of the car's use and if the car's needs are routine or a sign of trouble. Paying someone to work on a 164 is not cheap by any means, but if it is time for a water pump and clutch, then I would adjust the price accordingly. You are not going to get dollar for dollar, since this is work that will benefit you for many thousand of miles to come, but give your local Alfa shop a call to get an estimate... Better yet, pay for a couple of hours worth of their time and have them inspect the car thoroughly. It's just wiser to invest in a good car, and if this one is such an example, then it's worth giving it serious consideration...

Best regards,

 

[jrreeve]

Doesn't the 164S clutch have something funny with it? Like some type of mechanism....for some reason, i remember hearing something like that, but don't remember what it is...or if its even this car.

Rob
84 GTV-6

 

[Richard2]

The "S" clutch is a Pull to release rather than the normal push to release.
Do you have the ability and desire to work on it yourself? If so, and you get a deal, may be worth considering. If not, I'd look for something else. It's just too expensive to pay someone else to fix a non driveable 164 of unknown condition. If you can work on it yourself and need tech advise, there's lots of it on the BB.

 

[jrreeve]

Richard, can you elaborate on the pull release? Would that make the clutch feel slow to come up?

I've worked on my GTV6 more than a little bit, so i'm inclined to think i can do a bit of the work myself.

 

[Alfajay]

Rob:

ANY 15 year old car is going to have some maintenance issues. You need to decide first whether you want to own a 164, and then if this one is right for you. Once you say "yes" to that first decision, you are committing to a bunch of maintenance, regardless of which car you select. Even if you buy a 15 year old Toyota, and you can expect to do the water pump, clutch, timing belt, etc. etc.

Yea, the 164S clutch is actuated in a strange manner. There was also a hydraulic damper installed on some 164 models - by now, most of these dampers have vanished, as they are easily removed. But, the car you're looking at might simply have this as its clutch issue (then too, there may really be a Santa Claus).

Go to http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/ and read everything. You'll learn a lot about 164's there.

 

[aralfa8589]

There is a damper that causes the behavior you describe. Look around your clutch slave. follow the hard lines. Some folks bypass it to improve clutch action.

 

[aralfa8589]

Also, a water pump/timing belt change is smart when you first get a 164, just to start your own baseline. Other belts while you're in there isn't a bad idea. As above, you need to do your own work unless you have lots of discretionary income.
They are awesome cars.

 

[75evo]

It's not only the dampener, it could be the hose as well. My 164S had a bad hose and caused the slow clutch pedal return.

 

[Richard2]

A lot of 164 clutches take hold very near the floor. Bleeding the clutch is troublesome, because of the snake routing of the hose from the master to slave cylinder. To bleed the system may of us remove the slave cylinder, elevate it with the bleed screw pointing up, hold the piston in with a "C" clamp while bleeding. That may be the problem. However, if the master cylinder, slave cylinder and hose between the 2 haven't been changed, that may be the problem.

About a year ago, I bought a 1991 164B for $840. The engine started and ran fine, but the clutch was real bad, needed an exhaust system and shift linkage real sloppy. I had an exhaust system, bought the clutch and shift bushings. I also did timing belt, water pump, upper motor mount, axle shaft seals, idle micro switch and other things. It turned out to be a reasonable car. I probable have less than $1500 in it.

 

[Alfissimo Int.]

Sounds like a leaky hose. Typical! Look at the hose end that is directly in the slave, that is the side the 99% of the time leaks due to the bend in the hose.
If not and your Clutch MC is not squeaking then I think maybe the slave may be going bad. yes bleeding may be worth a try as well. Check fluid level and bleed , check line, remove damper if still in place and take hose directly from slave to hard line.

The car will have some issues but if for a good price you can spend some money on it and it will be a great car. Looks nice. As long as both interior and exterior are nice along with engine in good condition it should be a steal.

Jason

 

[AlfaTango1]

a 164S has a different feel in the clutch due to the type of clutch, pull vs. push. If you do not plan on doing your own work and the seller is motivated you might be able to shave a grand or more off the price. If it needs a water pump and you do not know if it has shot head gaskets I would offer 2K less...

 

[AR4me]

Did you guys consider that the seller may have factored these issues into his/hers asking price?

BTW, had a low mileage 164S where (just like 75Evo) it was a "collapsed" hose that caused slow return of the clutch pedal.

Jes

 

[redbaron]

not a big deal

the 164S has the same clutch system as the other 164 models except for the damper. All 164 models eventually suffer some clutch system malfunction that is almost always the master/slave cylinders failing or the hose expanding/leaking. either repair is somewhat unpleasant due to the fact that getting to the under dash items is a b*@$! to say the least. The parts are less than $400 easily, and you could do it yourself, however bleeding the system properly even with a pressure bleeder sucks big time...

If the price was right, I'd still buy it. a nice 164s with few problems is a rare gem these days.

 

[elite38868]

Rob, can you tell us more about the car? Mileage, maintenance history, etc...

 

[jrreeve]

Put an offer in on it yesterday...he's considering. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[aralfa8589]

If the car is as sweet as you say and only has the issues you describe, you are gonna be a happy camper. I enjoy working on mine with lots of tools, shop manuals, and most of all this website. Some patience won't hurt. Costs for body/paint and interior work are hard to estimate, so primo in those departments is a plus. The mechanicals are more predictable. If you do your own work, you will enjoy the car!
Let us know what happens.

 

[jrreeve]

Guy accepted the offer. Going to pick it up tomorrow, i think. Then i'm working on the water pump, timing belt, etc...or well...someone is.

 

[cfishkin]

I would imagine the LS' in the "bay area" upgraded at a later date for the 16's like I did.