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Discussion Starter #1
Any body figure out how to align and mount by the rivets, the wedge attachment plates that rivet to the inside of a new door. The wedge is then bolted to the plate through the door frame.

You will note in the first photo that the 2 plates shown have a constant distance top to bottom that matches the holes in the new door but you can also note that the hole orientation seems "random" and not the same or mirror image of each other.

Any body been through this or have ideas.

Ciao

Ken
 

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Suggest Luigi positioned wedge plate via some sort of jig and then drilled 2 holes for rivets through door frame and wedge plate. Position of rivets being unimportant.
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Suggest Luigi positioned wedge plate via some sort of jig and then drilled 2 holes for rivets through door frame and wedge plate. Position of rivets being unimportant. Pete
Pete the Alfa NOS door's frame are pre-drilled so Luigi jigged it some how and then drilled through the door holes into the plate. This is possible even likely based on my observations.

My question is if this is the case, how did Luigi do it???? And when, before the paint or after.

ken
 

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If the door frame were pre drilled, for these holes in question, they would all be in the same place, no?

Do you have a NOS door frame that proves they were pre drilled? Wow cool, you should get a craftsman to replicate it ... soon, surely to be a much needed replacement panel.

I meant, but could be wrong, that both wedge and door frame were drilled by hand for rivets.
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes I have 2 NOS doors and they are pre drilled and pre punched with 2 square holes that allow screw clearance and therefore adjustment.
 

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Yes I have 2 NOS doors and they are pre drilled and pre punched with 2 square holes that allow screw clearance and therefore adjustment.
So would it not be a case of Luigi, post paint and during assembly, to do up the screws through the square holes to fairly tight, close the door and when happy with fit, drill the 2 holes and rivet locking the position of the wedge?

Note I dont believe the rivet holes are pre drilled as I've said all along.
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So would it not be a case of Luigi, post paint and during assembly, to do up the screws through the square holes to fairly tight, close the door and when happy with fit, drill the 2 holes and rivet locking the position of the wedge?

Note I dont believe the rivet holes are pre drilled as I've said all along.
Pete
Yes I think it likely was done this way for lack of a better plan.

Pre drilled holes in door frame but no holes in the plate pictured.

K
 

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Ken.. on some cars these back plates floated. i.e the wedge was installed semi- tight then the door was slammed and the wedge was then tightened down where ever the wedge ended up when opening the door. I think the stages on your car in question were like this .. door with pre-drilled holes was painted... on the assembly line the plate was positioned with only the top hole pre-drilled and riveted in place allowing it to swivel on this top rivet... then the wedge was screwed to it semi-tight and a trial door closure took place ... reopened the door and drilled out the bottom hole on the plate where it landed after the door closure and then installed the bottom rivet and tightened the wedge home where it sat. The car on this BaT offering shows the rivets unpainted and was reputed to have never been touched .. The pass door was repainted but it was for a dent and we don't know if the frame was but probably not since it matches the driver door..https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-alfa-romeo-gtv-57/

It's the only explanation I have for the random holes at the bottom when the top one seems consistent with each other... a more interesting question is why Bertone bothered to make the shape of the plate so complex. Sort of weird yet specific shape..
 

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Yes I think it likely was done this way for lack of a better plan.

Pre drilled holes in door frame but no holes in the plate pictured.

K
I think I am not understanding you properly :).

Let me ask a few questions to see if I can catch up with you.
1. The square holes in the door frame are for the screws, correct?
2. In your NOS door frames, are there also pre-drilled holes for the rivets?
3. In total post installation of these wedges, each door frame would have had 4 holes, 2 square holes for the screws and 2 round smaller holes for the rivets, correct?

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I think I am not understanding you properly :).

Let me ask a few questions to see if I can catch up with you.
1. The square holes in the door frame are for the screws, correct?
2. In your NOS door frames, are there also pre-drilled holes for the rivets?
3. In total post installation of these wedges, each door frame would have had 4 holes, 2 square holes for the screws and 2 round smaller holes for the rivets, correct?

Pete
answers

Q1 YES
Q2 YES
Q3 YES

In most cases a picture is worth a 1000 words. (in some cases a picture needs a 1000 words)

Here is a picture of door frame of my NOS door with 2 square holes (through which pass 2 M6 screws that hold the wedge on) and 2 small holes for the rivets or to pilot the rivet drill.

Regards

Ken
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ken.. on some cars these back plates floated. i.e the wedge was installed semi- tight then the door was slammed and the wedge was then tightened down where ever the wedge ended up when opening the door. I think the stages on your car in question were like this .. door with pre-drilled holes was painted... on the assembly line the plate was positioned with only the top hole pre-drilled and riveted in place allowing it to swivel on this top rivet... then the wedge was screwed to it semi-tight and a trial door closure took place ... reopened the door and drilled out the bottom hole on the plate where it landed after the door closure and then installed the bottom rivet and tightened the wedge home where it sat. The car on this BaT offering shows the rivets unpainted and was reputed to have never been touched .. The pass door was repainted but it was for a dent and we don't know if the frame was but probably not since it matches the driver door..https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-alfa-romeo-gtv-57/

It's the only explanation I have for the random holes at the bottom when the top one seems consistent with each other... a more interesting question is why Bertone bothered to make the shape of the plate so complex. Sort of weird yet specific shape..
I held the 2 plates, that came off the same GTV, together back to back and the top holes do not line up, almost but not. All 4 rivet holes on those plates have drill burrs as if free hand drilled rather than machine drilled which can give a cleaner hole or can be dressed after drilling.

So I think that the un-drilled nut plates, spacers and wedges were put snugly in place and the door closed to align the wedge, then they were tightened and the door closing checked and only then were the 2 rivet holes per side drilled and the rivets applied; after paint.

So all holes are random. Note the different orientation of the nuts on the plates and note nut orientation in a left hand door pictured above. Why??

Always a question with our Alfas.

Ken
 

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ken said:
So I think that the un-drilled nut plates, spacers and wedges were put snugly in place and the door closed to align the wedge, then they were tightened and the door closing checked and only then were the 2 rivet holes per side drilled and the rivets applied; after paint.
Yep I get it and agree.
Pete
 

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Then it sounds like I am half right...it feels like the painted door and body are going down the assembly line and the line guy eyeballs where the wedge goes and screws it on to the plate and then does the trial closure to do the final locating of the wedge ... then he tightens the wedge home and drills out the holes in the backer plate through the painted holes on the door for the pop-rivets and installs the pop-rivets .. This makes both holes in the plate random for each installation and keeps the wedge from wandering on it's own over time. Done.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Then it sounds like I am half right...it feels like the painted door and body are going down the assembly line and the line guy eyeballs where the wedge goes and screws it on to the plate and then does the trial closure to do the final locating of the wedge ... then he tightens the wedge home and drills out the holes in the backer plate through the painted holes on the door for the pop-rivets and installs the pop-rivets .. This makes both holes in the plate random for each installation and keeps the wedge from wandering on it's own over time. Done.
So as well as getting the rust off my plates and plating or painting, I first have to weld fill the existing holes.

Thanks for all your ideas, guys

Ciao

Ken
 

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So as well as getting the rust off my plates and plating or painting, I first have to weld fill the existing holes.
Ditto. Another item for my long to-do list.

Pete
 

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I wouldn't weld them up.. Evapo-rust 'em and prime or just coat 'em with anti-seize as protection.. They will out live all of us. .. Then I would swap the plates around from door to door not knowing which is going to work without expecting to use the existing holes in the plates or part of them when you drill them out. Chances are good you will find a virgin part of the plate that way to drill in new holes. Drilling out a weld is not a happy time if you end up on that place,., so I would at least try to avoid that if you can. For sure you should find virgin metal on the top of the plate when you do this.. the wheel of fortune should land on virgin metal on the bottom one too from the looks of things. If luck is against you.. then go to plan B to plug a hole that might be partially in the path of your drill bit.
 

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While we are concentrating on this area of the door, it has come to my attention that I am in need of a pair of door wedge guides, as both of mine are flawed, one cracked the other broken. So if you have a pair you are willing to sell please let me know. Thanks, Fran
 

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While we are concentrating on this area of the door, it has come to my attention that I am in need of a pair of door wedge guides, as both of mine are flawed, one cracked the other broken. So if you have a pair you are willing to sell please let me know. Thanks, Fran
So while we are talking about the door wedge guides; I assume these would have been installed before painting and in a fixed location, and therefore painted as we have just determined that the wedges on the door are the adjustment point?

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I believe they are installed in their raw aluminum state, from my recall.
Hey Fran.

I believe they are Zinc based on the weight of 2 I have here on my desk and yes I think they were installed after paint based again based on the 2 on my desk which have one coat of paint from a respray on them.

Did you source some for your car. If not these 2 are available.

Ciao

Ken
 
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