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I'm wondering if it's likely that very late 101 Giulia spiders were equipped with the late model (tabs for valve cover) 105 cylinder heads.
I have a titled as a 66! normale s/n 379947 and the motor that came out of it had the later head.

Thanks,
Jim
 

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Richard Jemison
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1600 head with tabs?

I don`t think any 1600 head had the 2 front tabs. Those started with the 1750 series, but at that time the 1600 became the "Jr" motor so it`s possible, as the 1750/1600 is basically the same head, the 1750 having 12mm studs got larger head stud holes.
 

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I've a late '65 manufactured 101 Giulia Spider Veloce with the 105 casting number head, car titled as a '66. No loops on the head.
That said, many of the late 101 Giulia Veloce cars came with heads with the 101 casting number, a large port head. Many (most? all?) of these eventually developed cracks from a spark plug hole to the exhaust seat starting on the chamber side, and eventually penetrating into the coolant passages. There was a dealer replacement program where owners with cracked heads could get a dealer replaced head supplied from Alfa, and these heads ALL had the 105 casting number (no loops) and smaller intake ports. Those heads provided a smoother idle and better low end torque. Over time, it seems that all the 101 1600 Veloce heads were likely wisely replaced.
At this point in time, I worked for Knauz Continental Autos in Lake Forest, Illinois, and well remember 101 Veloce owners lining up for replacement heads.
 

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Hi Jimsikking, Alfar 7 and Gordon and all,

to Jim,

The date on the title, when the car was for the first time on the road, and the date of construction are not the same.
According Fusi, car S/N 10123.379947 was constructed yet half way 1964, having an engine with number between 00112.06849 and 00112.08810.
If you are not certain about your engine, check the engine number, if the number doesn’t start with 112, your engine is definitely not original to your car.
If the engine number does start with 112 but you do have the two little tabs on the head and camshaft cover then probably another head has been mounted somewhere in the past.

Before going any further it is good to know that numbers on a foundry like the cylinder head are often different from the part numbers in the catalogs. Those foundry numbers can only be used to compare the head with other heads or to give you a rough idea of the time that the part was made.
In this post I only use the part numbers of the books.

According to the catalogs your 112 engine would have the head with order number 105.00.01.053.00 . I can’t find any other car that could have used that head but I have to admit that my earliest catalog for the 105 giulia 1600 berlinas is only from 3/1967. So maybe other people, having 1600 Giulia berlina catalogs from the 62-66 periode, can check whether the head with Alfa number 105.00.01.053.00 was ever used on one of those 1600 berlinas. For the other 105 models (spiders and gts) I think I can go back to the beginning and I have checked all of them on that cyl. head number without succes.

About the tabs:

If the Alfa catalogs are correct than there are certainly no tabs to be found on the front cover and head for all 101 Giulia models untill May 1965.
In the 101 Giulia 1600 series catalogs from ’64 and ‘65, the spider and sprint had already a 105 numbered head : 105.00.01.053.00 but they kept the 101.00.01.054.00 cover from the 101 Giuliettas that had no front tabs !

For the Giulia Sprint Speciale it was the opposit: a 101 head number (101.21.01.053.01) and a 105 numbered camshaft cover (105.00.01.510.02) .
Because those catalogs mention only one Alfa number for the gasket between head and cover for all 3 the models: sprint, spider and SS: namely the 101 Giulietta gasket number 101.10.01.507.01, we could conclude that no tabs were used for all the 101 Giulia 1600 models, at least untill May 1965, the date of that catalog.

About the fire proof valve on the camshaft cover:

The Giulietta cover that was used on the 101 Giulia 1600 sprint and spider never had the fire proof valve.
It was confirmed in the Rapido catalog that also the SS cover 105.00.01.510.02 (also used on the earliest 1300 giulia) didn’t have the hole for the fire proof valve that was connected to the air filter housing.

So we can finally conclude that if one finds a cover with the fire proof valve, with those two ‘front’ tabs, or with both on an engine in any 101 Giulia model it wouldn’t be original.

What happened after 5/1965 ? I don’t know, I even don’t know whether there was another Alfa parts catalog made for 101 Giulia cars after the one from 5/1965. It would be great if someone can tell me about another catalog or supplement to that catalog to be existing, thanks.

Btw, was there ever a catalog or supplement for the Giulia spider veloce ?
I only have the booklet with the technical caracteristics where the Giulia spider veloce is side by side with the 101.21 Sprint Speciale.

to Richard,

During my little research in the catalogs regarding this matter I found at least two alfa numbers for covers with the tabs that were used on 1600cc 105 cars in the 1966-1967 periode.
Often added in the listings and than offered together with the cover without the tabs. It’s a pitty that catalogs and supplements to certain catalogs don’t mention year or chassis number about when the change was introduced.
As you mentioned, the 1600 Juniors must always have had the tabs but this was not always the case for the 1300 Juniors that came some years earlier.

to Gordon,

We know that the very last 101 Giulia spider, the ‘Veloce’ inherited the SS engine.

Do we have to understand from your post nr 3 that the 101 casting numbered head that you mentioned to be to fragile for cracks was the 101.21.01.053.01 coming from that 101.21 SS 1600 engines?
Do you have any idea what 1600cc 105 head was used in the dealer replacement program? Was it made especially for this replacement on the Giulia spider veloce or did it come from another 105 car?

It couldn’t be the Giulia TI, TI Super, Giulia Super to ch. nr. 862.000 and the Giulia GT as they all used that same 101.21 head at that time.

The GTA head was not used of course.

If I’m correct in the 1600cc range the only other candidate was the 105.36.01.053.00 head that was going to be used on following ‘66 and ‘67 cars : 105.03 spider, Giulia super from ch.nr. 862.001, and much later on the 1600 juniors . Could it be this head that was used for the replacement?

Maybe this all is only important for 101.18 car owners but it can be seen as a part of the whole story.

Some last questions to you Gordon if I may,do you still have the original engine of your Giulia spider veloce ? If so, what is the type number of the engine? 00121 or 00118 ?

Was your cylinder head also replaced?

Do you remember whether there was a service bulletin about this dealer replacement program?

Sorry if my text has become that long.
I know that the Alfa numbers can be annoying when reeding and that they can make the reader dizzy but I did add them in the post for specifying what parts I’m talking about and for people that would like to check them in their catalogs. I congratulate everyone that has come to the end of this text together with me for his perseverance.

I hope I have not made big errors in the interpretation of the catalogs.
Thanks for answers, other ideas or corrections.

Rgds,

Thierry
 

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As some of you know I've owned my Spider Veloce 50 years next year. It was produced May 23, 1965 and sold mid 1966. It has a 00121 engine and an original head numbered 105-00-01500.00. In 1970 this head was removed by ARI in El Segundo and resurfaced to repair a leak in Cyl #1. You would think that if the head was going to be replaced through a manufacturer or dealer program that would have been the time but it was not.
I have a Spare Parts Catalog purchased in late 1966. It is an August 1966 revision of the 10/1964 produced catalog. The Amendment contains changes to about 1/3 of the original Tables as well as new tables 76/1 and 78/1, It also contains new tables 45/1 and 45/2 for RHD cars.
I'm not sure what difference any of this makes but I like others find the differences in our limited production hand built cars interesting.
Dale
 

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Great information Dale !
Many thanks for sharing it with us.
Could you confirm that your original engine has the 00121 or a 00118 number?

Rgds from Belgium,

Thierry
 

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100% agree with Thierry and a simple technical explanation.
I own a Giulia TI of January 63 (pre-series as we call it in Italy),one of the oldest existing today and 100% complete and original. Now under restoration. The head has a foundry number of 105000150000 and compared to the same head produced in 64 it is recognizable only by smaller hexagonal caps. It is the same as the late 101 of the 62. Look at photos.
IMG-20191014-WA0000.jpeg IMG-20191007-WA0005.jpeg

This head does not have 2 front holes because it only equips engine blocks with open oil vapor expulsion tube. See picture

IMG_20191105_113931.jpg

When Alfa introduced oil vapor recovery (late 1965), It also introduced the head with 2 frontal holes due to the development of electrostatic currents. On these heads 2 aluminum washers are required behind the cover and 2 pins are next. They guarantee the dispersion of currents generated by the movement of pressurized oil vapors. Try to eliminate these details (I don't recommend it) and you will see that the head "spits" the gasket. Obviously, this phenomenon does not occur on old heads because the vapors are expelled and not recycled.
So is the block to give you info about a correct or wrong head
 
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