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Discussion Starter #1
Just about to pound the last nail into the top of the optimism coffin and thought I would post one LAST question re the No Crank dilemma.
Ignore spellling errors.

Tried to apply 12v from a good battery to the 1 pin and no effect. Mind you, a few weeks back, I had no crank at the switch, applied 12v and got a reaction and then still no crank at the switch.

So, if I apply 12v at the starter pin 1 (large round connector), where is the starter grounded to? Is it the large, braided ground wire on the firewall near the reservoir?
If so, are any other wires a possible issue (solenoid wiring)?

In other words, apply 12v to pin 1 and if teh starter is properly grounded, there should be no other wires to consider and it either starts (so someother issue) or not (so it's the starter itself).
Hope these don,t seem obtuse. Too cold to work outside and too far to push into a garage and I just want to rule out all other issues.

P.S. Have a rear (left) tail light ingreat condition that I would gladle trade for a propert service manual covering 1995 models.

Regards

Peter
 

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I think I would be willing to think it might be a funk starter solenoid, having had them before in previous Alfas.

In fact, what I used to do was use a stick to hold the key in the start position while I went outside to tap on the solenoid with a long metal rod. Then I would go back in and remove that key holding stick, with the engine now running. Don't know if you can reach the solenoid with a long metal rod to tap on it while someone holds the key in the start position. Haven't looked at my LS yet. Maybe tomorrow.
 

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Is it the large, braided ground wire on the firewall near the reservoir?
Yes, between the gearbox and the body, near the tank.
You can check the operation of the starter. Wire from the starter solenoid to the relay is in the .........green Arrow. It is necessary to find and connect to the pin 1-2 seconds, the red arrow. Will be immediately understandable to blame the starter or ignition switch or the starter relay or wire.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Re funky solenoid.

I think I would be willing to think it might be a funk starter solenoid, having had them before in previous Alfas.

In fact, what I used to do was use a stick to hold the key in the start position while I went outside to tap on the solenoid with a long metal rod. Then I would go back in and remove that key holding stick, with the engine now running. Don't know if you can reach the solenoid with a long metal rod to tap on it while someone holds the key in the start position. Haven't looked at my LS yet. Maybe tomorrow.
Let's see if a 2nd response holds:

Yes, will give it a shot. Did this years back to my RX7 and it was a dirty solenoid casing. Greas gummed up. Taking the starter off, although under the car, was a 20 minute job.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re solenoid, starter

Yes, between the gearbox and the body, near the tank.
You can check the operation of the starter. Wire from the starter solenoid to the relay is in the .........green Arrow. It is necessary to find and connect to the pin 1-2 seconds, the red arrow. Will be immediately understandable to blame the starter or ignition switch or the starter relay or wire.
Hi Evgeny. Thanks for your help and the photo. I hate to admit that I don;t quite understand your suggestion.
The starter solenoid to starter relay wire is in the bundly (green arrow) and is the Pin 1 in the large connector. The red arrow points to the jumper block. Are you saying I should connect the #1 pin (the female end that goes to the starter not the male end that sends out 12v) to the jumper block terminal and see if it motivates the starter?

Thanks.
 

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Provided that with the ground all is OK.
It is necessary to determine what is the reason. For starter, there is no easy access from below. You can certainly use the workshopmanual and look for how it is written. But it's a long time. So I found the wire that goes from the solenoid to the starter relay which is next to the ignition switch. In my case were oxidized contacts on the relay. But I still found this wire and connect the other wire. Now, if starter not want to work, I can check it out by touching the contact( red ).


Here, the black wire in the picture. If you will hear the solenoid, then the fault in the ignition switch or starter relay or wires that connect it all. If the sound does not, then no luck. It is necessary to remove the starter.
Sorry maybe my English is not so good.:oops:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: starter-no crank-solenoid wire

Provided that with the ground all is OK.
It is necessary to determine what is the reason. For starter, there is no easy access from below. You can certainly use the workshopmanual and look for how it is written. But it's a long time. So I found the wire that goes from the solenoid to the starter relay which is next to the ignition switch. In my case were oxidized contacts on the relay. But I still found this wire and connect the other wire. Now, if starter not want to work, I can check it out by touching the contact( red ).


Here, the black wire in the picture. If you will hear the solenoid, then the fault in the ignition switch or starter relay or wires that connect it all. If the sound does not, then no luck. It is necessary to remove the starter.
Sorry maybe my English is not so good.:oops:
Thanks for your help. Maybe I am the problem. I don't understand where the black wire is coming from. Are you touching the wire from the solenoid (black) to the terminals at the jumper block? Does this black wire come from the relay? I think this is what I understand. So, a long wire from the relay should go to the red terminals (smaller ones at left side of jumper block). I do not have a manual for a 1995 and my manual to 1993 has no diagram.

Thank you.
 

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I don't understand where the black wire is coming from. Are you touching the wire from the solenoid (black) to the terminals at the jumper block?
Yes.

This Diagram for my 24V I do not think that there will be differences from 12V
 

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His added on black wire is coming from pin 1 black wire in the big round G151 connector behind false firewall. Like I told you to do before he is bypassing I10 starter relay with 12v power from battery terminal junction box on firewall and going straight to pin 1 small black wire that goes to energize starter solenoid.

As for engine and starter grounding braided strap it goes from transmission to bolt on chassis by coolant tank and air cleaner.

As for large starter motor power cable it also goes from junction box to large post on starter solenoid. It can be corroded at starter solonoid. So if the pin 1 12v power straight to the starter trick does not make solenoid click then eith starter solenoid is bad or you have corrision at big cable at starter if braided ground strap connections are clean.

Chances are you have a bad starter or solenoid and cold weather or not it will have to be changed.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No crank test at pin 1

Warmish (plus 9C) motivated me to go out and test as per Steves and Evgeny suggestions. First I checked the relays manually (opening them up, clsing the contact manually to verify flow, plugging them and checking for 12v at the in and out terminals and swapping them around) and they seem fine.
Ran a line from jumper terminal (left side) onto pin 1 and there is a click so I believe the solenoid is fine. Tried a few times and clicks were consistant.
What now? As it can be the the ignition switch, how do I test this?
Thanks.

Have a safe and Merry Christmas and don't let those boxing day lineups make you crazy.
 

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If you got starter solenoid click jumping 12v to pin one black wire starter in big G151 connector behind false firewall the starter should work if starter is OK. The only other thing would be a corrossion issue in big starter cable to starter.

I am pretty sure you have a starter pull in your future.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: solenoid, starter, etc

If you got starter solenoid click jumping 12v to pin one black wire starter in big G151 connector behind false firewall the starter should work if starter is OK. The only other thing would be a corrossion issue in big starter cable to starter.

I am pretty sure you have a starter pull in your future.
Yep. No aversion to pulling it during warm weather.Just not in winter.
I did try to clean up the security harness as there were 2 ratty wires (orange and yellow). Seemed to get 2 blips from the starter then back to nothing. I recall 2 instances in October when the car seemed to want to stop while driving along and still wondering if ignition switch contacts may be an issue as well.
The hesitations were fractions of a second and seemed like an ignition cut off rather than a miss.
Is there a way to jump the ignition "start" leads to check the switch?

Thanks.
 

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Is there a way to jump the ignition "start" leads to check the switch?

Red to purple if on chassis end of harness.

or Red to black if on switch connector end of harness.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Final report from 2014 on no crank

Final report on the no crank issue for 2014. Warmish weather prompted me to complete checking all internal relays and starter switch. All seem o.k.
Checking for voltage at male pin 1 from large connector does show voltage when key is turned so I know it isn't voltage to the starter pin that's the issue. Jumpin the junction box to the female pin 1 showed no response (2-3 clicks last time, then 2-3 blips when trying to start then nothing).
So, voltage to pin is fine but that's where it stops. I expect the starter or relay (or connections).
Going to pack it for today and the next warmish day will find me removing the filter box and trying to trace the wiring to the starter and relay. Maybe I will get lucky. At least, when warm weather returns and I can complete the removal, the air box and associated stuff will be spotless.

Have a safe and Happy New Year to all.

Peter

Beeton
 

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If key in start position gives you 12v at pin 1 at G151 then relay which is under dash inside car is good.

Removing air cleaner isn't going to do much for you except allow you to follow engine starter ground wire from grounding point near air cleaner to bolt on transmisson case.

As for starter wiring it is hidden under heat shield that is hidden under rear exhaust manifold which is accessed under the car and also by removing intake plenun on rear head and removing false firewall.
 
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