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Discussion Starter #1
i got on the freeway in sacramento, 80/99 south, took a right to get on 50 east, my fav. highway corner,allways try to get around it as fast as i can( fun)it's a 35 mph. corner, most of the time with no traffic i can get around it at 60 with no problem... but today...got into the corner, at 55/60 mph, everythings ok so far..then it's in front of me............water on the pavement, the sprinklers or on, the back spray getting that corner nice and wet:eek: .... too late. i am now driving sideways......taking up booth lanes...:( now i am facing backwards...( trying my best to recover.)as she snap spins in the corner......the corner has a nice bank to it. so i spin (1 time around)and the banking helps me stay on the road long enough to catch it, and get her going in the right direction agian.. close one:eek:
 

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I bet you're glad (a) you weren't on a motorcycle, (b) I wasn't behind you :(, and (c) a CHP wasn't coming the other way . . . :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
geh...

i am allways ready for wet coners.......this one just suprised me, once i saw it , and felt the rotation start, i just waited for it to get the full rotation, then ,i know i could not stop it from rotating around, as i was taught.."look to where you want to go, and you will go there" in the winter at cal expo parking lot. or in those many subdivions allways being built in the area....i pratice the spin. to keep learning how to recover..that " look where you want to go" part works great.:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
from what i have read here..

there is pretty much no way to advoid the " alfa spider wet spin", the rear of the car is pretty light...i am running 205/50/16 tyres, hankook k 106 tyres, good grip when dry, not so good when wet( at higher speeds)i have looked here , before i bought my tyres, for wet handling, not many good wet tyres around.:(
 

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If you see some good wet tyres for the Spider let me know! I took about a 20 ft slide after a lady in a minivan ran a red light and tried to tbone me in the rain. Right now the Dunlops not bad for dry, but for rain they can be "challenging". BTW "look where you want to go" great advice.
 

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1966-2013
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1) Buy the dry traction tires of your choice.

2) Find a freind who races dirt in your area that's got a bucketload of tools because he's 3rd generation and been doing for like 50 years.

3) Borrow his tire groover (something most asphalt racers are unlikely to have) and get hot putting a wet tread pattern into your tires.

If confused about a pattern, dig up some archival F1, LeMans or other big budget endurance racing pix and check out thier wet patterns.



It won't be as good as a true wet pattern and compound, but it'll be better than what the dry pattern you have gives and result in a minimal loss of grip in the dry compared to that you have.

That or get a razor blade and fix it into a jig so it can only cut to X depth and then sipe the crap out of the tread blocks........
 

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Wow! I live like five miles from a dirt track. Probably can find someone from around there. It would be an interesting experiment to try on an extra set, and compare to wet tyres. Will they still drive like the dry ones when driven with lets say "spirit"? I know there will be suttle differences, but what should I expect?
 

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They should perform at an almost equal level as the dry pattern.

Yes, there will be some grip loss (you're removing tread remember) but some of that will be offset a small amount by the addtional lugs you'll create.

Every lug has an edge 90 degrees to the road surface. This edge presents a sort of 'square edge' to the road which in turn actually gives a bit of grip as the lug begins to deform. (look at some of the dirt tires when you are there. You'll note that several have more grooves or lugs on the side that gets presented to the outside of the turn in circle track cars. Those extra grooves/lugs on the outside give more bite as there are more edges)

Transitionally, you'll most likely have a slightly lower threashold between grip and oh crap in the dry, but the exchange is a just about equal improvement in wet grip. (very loose #'s to use as example, you could lose up to 10-15% grip in the dry, but potentially gain the same amount in the wet)

A few things to note:

*DON'T go nuts carving things up. Just a few extra grooves going from tread bar to tread bar is adiquate. (you're looking at giving the water a place to channel out from under the tread, not make snow tires)

*use angles that will squeeze the water toward the outside of the tread when the tire is in motion (water displacement is a directional thing. Never go just straight across)

*If you are planning on crossing more than one tread bar, offset the groove from bar to bar (it cuts down on that annoying hum like you hear in jeep tires. It's a result of multiple lugs slapping the pavement at one time. Groove offset reduces that noise)

*you'll prolly only need to go about 1/2 as deep as the factory tread is. (water will displace easily enough, and if you screw it up, at least when the tires are half worn, the grooves will be gone)

*With the extra grooving, the tires will come up to temperature quicker (less tread surface means more work on exisiting contact patch, thus faster heat up) but will stay at a warm level instead of overheating (more grooves means smaller bits of contact patch to hold heat + the grooves help move air in/on/around the pattern for a more balanced temperature overall)


Please be advised that I hold nor claim any responsibility, nor will even probably feel guilty if you try it and screw it up. (well, mabe a little guilty, but not nearly as much as some would probably like me to feel)

Grooving tires is an art form.

Study several wet patterns for both street and race tires, then looking at your pattern, try to decide what the minimum you can do to displace the most water with the least amount of grooving. (it's possible to use narrower grooves that the exsiting tread has already. These will still move water but have a lesser effect on material removed)

Note that if you get really carried away and carve things up all over the pattern, the tread will effectively become softer (not the rubber, but the flexability of the contact patch) which might not be something you're after.

Another concept is to just widen the exisiting pattern grooves you have by a small %-age. (it won't displace water as effectively, but it will give it more places to 'store' away from the contact portion of the lugs. The whole idea after all is to get the water away form the part of the tread that contacts the road so that grip can be produced instead of hydroplane)

As to siping with a blade, talk around in the pits to several folks about it before even considering it. (then consider it for a long time more, then forget I mentioned it unless you're planning on getting a set of slicks or almost slicks for street use)

It has advantages and it has disadvantages, both more relevant to competition type driving than anything you'd prolly see on the street.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i just bought the tyres

they have about 1000 miles on them after 4 months, don't really want to cut up the tyres, the have a good directional pattern, to move water i guess...and yes :D the are on the right way...i keep them at 32 pounds front 30 pounds rear.
 

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bianchi1 said:
...most of the time with no traffic i can get around it at 60 with no problem...
First - I'm glad you and your Alfa are OK.

Second - this is not the way to drive on public roads. You did not leave yourself any margin of safety for the unexpected.

Get thee to a closed course (track).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ghnl??

public roads??? then where should i drive? if there are other cars on the road( busy 2 laner, highway, etc.) i drive carefully, i am not a 18 year old kid.i have competed in autcross for 15 years now:D , have taking driving schools at sear's point raceway( can't spell the new name..:rolleyes: )i am not going to put anyone at risk....perhaps i should sell my alfa spider and drive a saturn? so , pulbic roads? where do you drive you car,, not mad,, but confused...:confused: anr't all roads you drive on " public"? track time is kinda pricey..
 

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bianchi1 said:
i am not going to put anyone at risk....
If you are losing control (you were NOT in control when you spun your car 360 degrees) due to an unexpected road condition then you are putting the rest of us in danger.

What if a child had been crossing the road?

anr't all roads you drive on " public"? track time is kinda pricey..
Yes, I drive my Alfa on public roads. In a reasonable manner. And one can enjoy driving an Alfa in such a manner.

If you want to drive at 9/10's or higher - leaving no margin for the unexpected - then you should be on a closed course.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
not made much off a diff.

at 35/40 mph. in that corner. with the wet road.. probley still would have lost the back end...not trying to be rude.:) but these are sports cars. are you not ging to drive a sports car hard? then why drive one..it that not why we buy them?.. if i an wrong, i will trade my alfa spider in for a camry, a plain car.( sorry if any of you out there own camrys, i sell them).. because of your rules there could be a child any where i drive my car..i have seen them in the mountains, along the coast, they are everywhere;) a question, do you ever drive faster then the posted speed limit? you never push your car on some cool back road?( be carefull there, i race bicycles,and i am on back roads training) you might hit me or my training freinds..so from what i can gather,i should only drive my car at posted speed limits( even here in ca. if you do you block the freeway)never drive my car hard? from what i have read here, are you not supossed to drive alfa's hard??should i just putter around below 3000 rpm? can't go faster than that,what about the shocks and perforance spring we put on our cars, waste of money???and bigget tyres and rims, that a lot of us put on our cars... man i have wasted a lot of money.. of i might be driving my car hard? agian, not trying to be rude, but i see no use in driving an alfa romeo, if there is no reson to guess i will be putting my car on craiglist soon:(
 
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