Alfa Romeo Forums banner

21 - 40 of 75 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
This may be totally unrelated, but I had an issue with the distributor on a Duetto 1600. It started reliably but it was missing intermittently and then started to get worse. In an effort to verify and adjust the ignition timing and point gap, I was getting erratic results when trying to turn the engine till the points just opened. Sometimes a 5-7 degree difference in the timing mark when the points opened. To make a long story short, the drive dog on the distributor shaft had worn the hole for the roll pin into an oblong shape allowing the timing to vary widely. You can see it on the attached picture. I wonder if something like this could allow enough variation in the timing to cause a no start situation and then when you roll the car it somehow changes the relation of the roll pin in the drive dog to get the timing closer to correct? I am not sure how pushing the car "in nuetral" could possibly transfer any motion to the engine to change anything, it seems unlikely but... just a thought.
IMG_20190920_123056637.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Oil Pump drive gear still okay, see thread below?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Update: I replaced my distributor with 123 ignition and also replaced my coil. according to my mechanic, he has no idea how my car was running previously since the breaker point on my distributor wasn't adjusted properly and was basically touching the distributor cam the whole time.

anyway, i left three hours back and ran a few errands along the way. So far I've been able to start the car every time but twice i've had to struggle a bit similar to the video below. most times though i can just turn it on with the key and not have to press on the gas and it will start and idle.

so thinking this could be a carb tuning issue maybe, not sure since he adjusted my carbs, gonna give it a few days and see what happens. hopefully, though this solved whatever issue I was previously facing and i don't have to pull out the engine to replace the flywheel ring,

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Hmmm don’t think it’s carb, it sounds like something is scraping metal if that makes sense

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
sounds like the alternator belt is slipping?
interesting, my mechanic told me my belt was loose and i told him the manual said i should be able to push a finger in and it would flex. maybe it's tooo loose, worth tightening it up a bit to check if that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Ok, so was leaving to dinner with my gf and tried starting the car and it wouldn’t turn on, like battery was dead. I just got a brand new Bosch batter last week! So connected my booster and tried starting the car and noticed smoke coming out of the starter area. I guess something is messed up with my starter cuz it’s smoking now 😔

weird thing is my starter is new and I just recently replaced it. So either I got a defected unit or something caused it to die.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Oil Pump drive gear still okay, see thread below?
And you were right!

Reviving this thread because even though I changed my distributor, my coil and my starter and even though everything was working perfectly, yesterday while leaving work the car wouldn't start. Took the car to the mechanic today on a flatbed and first thing he concluded was that my brand new electric 123 distributor had failed because no power was getting to the sparkplugs. I was a bit upset cuz I just bought it and paid a lot for it but anyway we removed my distributor to fit in the old one when he asked me to try and start the car. When I did he noticed the thing inside which rotates the distributor wasn't turning. He said my oil pump drive needed replacing. So I think that's what been causing most of my issues.

So just ordered from CA and should arrive on Monday. My mechanic is traveling for a month so his last working day is next Friday so hopefully he can get it done. He said its an engine out job (is that true) and if so I want him to swap out a few things including some gaskets, RPM cable, fuel pump and a couple of more other things.

1611501
 

·
Registered
1969 GTV 1750 Australia
Joined
·
222 Posts
Does not sound like a starter Mark. It spins in a regular fashion. No fast whirring noise. No indication of slipping on the teeth of the ring gear on that vid. So the suspects remaining are air, fuel and spark. I assume that fuel is getting through (filter clean, no blocked jets) or ignition. Ignition can be anything, but possible suspects are a random fault in the condenser (easy to change). Modern ones are very fallible and poorly made. Check all plug leads and the inside of the distributor cap and rotor for cracks and the points for clearance. I like to remove a plug, reconnect it to its 'lead and put the base/electrode of the plug near near some metal in the valley of the motor and see if you can spot spark.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #30

*** it happened again!! yesterday I tried starting the car and guess what, the starter wouldn't start! This is the second starter I replaced, actually third if you consider the OEM one but I think that starter had it's own issues. Now I'm trying to figure out if the starters I'm buying are just not reliable or there is something else thats causing my starters to die.

The past two starters have been the "EL013/1 LIGHTWEIGHT STARTER MOTOR - 3 BOLT MOUNT - 8 TOOTH" from CA. The reason I chose to buy it is because it was a straight on bolt on with no modifications needed to be made. Does anyone have any other one I could purchase and try out, something that bolts on easily as well.

If it's not the actual starter thats the issue but something else that could be causing them to die what could it be? Could the ring gear be getting stuck and so the starter motor not be able to turn it? I put the car in 2nd gear yesterday and tried to push it but it wouldn't budge, is that normal?

I'm reaching to a point where I'm going to have to order two starters so I can always have one as a backup in the trunk. It had been nearly 2 months since I had seen my mechanic we were doing so good :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Did you try to start it at the starter itself, bypassing all the wiring and switches of the car. Any mechanic know how to do this if you are not comfortable doing it yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
No I haven't, I'll see if I can find a youtube video on how to do it myself, country is in a semi lockdown at the moment because of the corona virus so haven't gotten in touch with my mechanic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,796 Posts
I put the car in 2nd gear yesterday and tried to push it but it wouldn't budge, is that normal?
not really....you won't be able to push it around the block that's for sure (;)) but the car should at least try to move
(in 5th gear it is easier, try that)

when you replaced the starter(s), did you use the special shoulder bolt (in middle hole)...that is the bolt that aligns things correctly?

shoulder bolt.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
I'll try in 5th gear later today and see if that works.
Regarding the bolt yes I believe so, I had one and purchased another one to be safe and turned out to be the same one I had. I also got that flat spacer pictured that goes between the starter and bell housing. I'm really surprised that my starter failed again cuz I thought I did everything right this time. Even had the ignition and coil changed and oil pump. like not much left in the car to change.
 

·
Registered
1969 GTV 1750 Australia
Joined
·
222 Posts
Mark, in the recent past I had similar issues with another car. I worked the sequence of fuel, to air to spark (most problems are the latter). Rebuilt the distributor and fitted new points and coil. Usual stuff. Then I tested the (old) condenser capacitance and it was pretty much dead. I fitted another one and all was good for 4 months. Same problem - erratic starting. The 'new' condensers that are made are not a patch on the originals. I even cut some up to observe the poor manufacture (using glue!) on their inner connections. I bought a $2.0 radio/stereo capacitor with the same specs as the original Bosch condenser and trial fitted that. Perfect! Also test with a meter, the voltage at the coil and the also integrity of your ignition switch.

Not suggesting that this is your only problem. Another poster mentioned your solenoid as a suspect - check that too, as if that is faulty or inconsistent then the load on your starter can be greater. It is a matter of eliminating things. Have you tried any of the old starters and the solenoid on the bench?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
oh i guess i have two things i can try to swap! the condenser i haven't swapped yet, let me actually see what I have installed. Then I can also try swapping my ignition switch to see if that could be a point of issue as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
Sorry stupid question but where is the ignition condenser located? I couldn't find it in the engine bay.
Also I put car in 5th gear and was able to push it forward no issues so nothing stuck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
On the side of the distributor.
hmm so I'm guessing it's not related to the starter? That means the only thing before the starter i haven't changed is the key ignition. I guess thats the next thing I need to order.
 

·
Registered
1969 GTV 1750 Australia
Joined
·
222 Posts
At a distance Mark, it is so hard to tell what a problem is. Most starting problems are electrical. It sounds as though your car was turning over quite well, but now the (new) starter won't turn - and is not caught up on the flywheel teeth (i.e., you can push the car). So the solenoid (relay) on top of the starter is a question, as is the ignition switch. However, if it was me - I would first be running a long, high amp cable from the battery positive terminal to the starter solenoid +ve terminal and just touching it on quickly to see if the starter spun over. That would eliminate the ignition switch from the equation. If no change then then bench testing is not difficult of the solenoid and starter. If the cars starts and runs but sometimes won't, I would suspect the condenser or something electrical in the ignition process.
 
21 - 40 of 75 Posts
Top