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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,
I have a 1600 sprint that was red from the factory, I have had this photo for some time and wondered if it was a factory trim option. i'm pretty sure my car was black vynil on the face of the seats but cloth would be nicer. i was recently looking at a 1963 magazine road test on a 1600 sprint and it appears in the black and white photo to be similar to this.

any feedback welcome.

cheers ian



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Hi Ian,

My '63 is salt and pepper cloth faced which extended to the original factory rear seats. Car being factory red with red carpet/black interior. Images of the delapidated state in the interiors thread and I've had it all replicated by Elvizio (yet to be fitted).
A couple of points to note; black vinyl used as trim everywhere but the front seats had grey....went with black for replacements from Elvizio after some debate. Wondered whether the grey was also a special order along with the rear seats when ordered. Also the rear shelf had a bead of salt and pepper cloth iinbetween it and the meeting with the headliner.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thats helpful. what really started me thinking was the article written in 1963 and the photos, showing the seats in this cloth style fabric. pity its black and white and on paper not gloss so its a bit gainy
 

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In conversation with Donatella at Elvizio she was pretty convinced the original front colourway should have been black vinyl sides from the outset... But accepted they were factory covers. Car seemed to have come off the road in '69 if the NY tax is believed so hardly likely to have been replaced. Maybe the original owner wanted to match the grey of seat belt webbing.
Not clear to what degree the customer got what they wanted at the time regardless of standard spec.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
it's looking like it was an original option
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
these pictures are from an english magazine autocar in may 1963. best i can tell its a red car with black interior except for seat faces.
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
also from an australian magazine in 1963, a white car with what looks like cloth again
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I'm no expert on the 101 Giulia Sprints, but I believe that both options are correct --> if you follow trend on the evolution of the Sprints you see a pattern emerging

750 had a period in early '58 with the last of the Series I Sprints where there was vinyl-vinyl interiors, red cars had black & red vinyl interiors and in general there was a lean away from the 'Norm' of trim colours and trim spec. A few of the rare paint colours appeared & equally disappeared at this time, Biarritz Blue, Blu Francia, etc

The first of the Interim / Transition Sprints continued with the vinyl-vinyl in contrasting colours, red cars got red & off-white vinyl with cloth being an option, early ones got 750 stripy cloth later ones got 101 salt & pepper - sal e pepe cloth

During '59 it all seemed to revert back to vinyl-cloth with red cars getting a red vinyl & salt & pepper cloth - now vinyl-vinyl was an option (swapped over from '58/59)

Giulietta to 101 Giulia would have been the same as marketing tried different combinations to jazz up the interiors. Remember that the Sprint was 9 years old by 1963 and the 105 Sprint GT was launched 9 September '63 at the Works at Arese, so Marketing would have tried to keep the interiors of the ageing 101 trendy.

If you want a prime example of what was happening at the time, look at the short lived move of the indicators to the top of the fenders just in front of the doors. Both Sprint & the Spider had the indicators there around the same time. Another genius Marketing idea that didn't work in practice. Here's a pair of Factory pictures of the Sprint & Spider together with our Feb '60 Spider 08930.... the holes are perfectly punched and no sign of drilling or filing.



Ciao
Greig


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Greig,
What is the cable running from the back area of your hardtop, through your door handle, then in to your interior? I have three guesses, but I may be way off. Doesn’t look like a rare “marketing dept.” item…
Dave
 

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my red 63 giulia 1600 sprint had a blue interior with those cloth faced seats (so cloth and blue vinyl), and also had those hard rear half covers, and blue vinyl door cards and rear shelf.
It also had a pair of rather fat rear vinyl cushions you could put in place of those hard covers to add a little comfort when carrying rear passengers (I often had 2 in the back on short trips!)

then the blue rubber mats for the front that fitted into 4 little chrome nibbins, screwed into the floor.
 

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Greig wrote: The first of the Interim / Transition Sprints continued with the vinyl-vinyl in contrasting colours, red cars got red & off-white vinyl with cloth being an option, early ones got 750 stripy cloth later ones got 101 salt & pepper - sal e pepe cloth

I will add: my August 6, 1958 built 750E had vinyl / cloth. Seats were gray vinyl with probably salt/pepper (see photo of how bad it looks now). The door panels and rest were part gray and part dark blue, all vinyl.
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Greig,
What is the cable running from the back area of your hardtop, through your door handle, then in to your interior? I have three guesses, but I may be way off. Doesn’t look like a rare “marketing dept.” item…
Dave
It's the multicore cable that runs from the tow car tow plug to a tail board I made years ago. The tail board is a simple timber panel with a pair of trailer lights and a number plate that says "On Tow". Works like a treat.

Ciao
Greig
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'm no expert on the 101 Giulia Sprints, but I believe that both options are correct --> if you follow trend on the evolution of the Sprints you see a pattern emerging

750 had a period in early '58 with the last of the Series I Sprints where there was vinyl-vinyl interiors, red cars had black & red vinyl interiors and in general there was a lean away from the 'Norm' of trim colours and trim spec. A few of the rare paint colours appeared & equally disappeared at this time, Biarritz Blue, Blu Francia, etc

The first of the Interim / Transition Sprints continued with the vinyl-vinyl in contrasting colours, red cars got red & off-white vinyl with cloth being an option, early ones got 750 stripy cloth later ones got 101 salt & pepper - sal e pepe cloth

During '59 it all seemed to revert back to vinyl-cloth with red cars getting a red vinyl & salt & pepper cloth - now vinyl-vinyl was an option (swapped over from '58/59)

Giulietta to 101 Giulia would have been the same as marketing tried different combinations to jazz up the interiors. Remember that the Sprint was 9 years old by 1963 and the 105 Sprint GT was launched 9 September '63 at the Works at Arese, so Marketing would have tried to keep the interiors of the ageing 101 trendy.

If you want a prime example of what was happening at the time, look at the short lived move of the indicators to the top of the fenders just in front of the doors. Both Sprint & the Spider had the indicators there around the same time. Another genius Marketing idea that didn't work in practice. Here's a pair of Factory pictures of the Sprint & Spider together with our Feb '60 Spider 08930.... the holes are perfectly punched and no sign of drilling or filing.



Ciao
Greig


View attachment 1712257 View attachment 1712258

View attachment 1712256
I think that sort of answered it. I have photos now of 3 cars with the cloth trim, 2 in 1963, so i'm assuming it was an option.

thanks again Grieg
 

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my red 63 giulia 1600 sprint had a blue interior with those cloth faced seats (so cloth and blue vinyl), and also had those hard rear half covers, and blue vinyl door cards and rear shelf.
It also had a pair of rather fat rear vinyl cushions you could put in place of those hard covers to add a little comfort when carrying rear passengers (I often had 2 in the back on short trips!)

then the blue rubber mats for the front that fitted into 4 little chrome nibbins, screwed into the floor.
Going on what was specc'ed for the Giulietta Sprints, the blue interiors traditionally went with a blue, white or grey exterior... but as mentioned, with the Giulias anything is possible, even a trim swap at a Dealer before a car was sold. If a client came in wanting to buy a white Sprint but wanted a red interior, dealers were not above swapping complete interiors to make a sale, so yes it is definitely possible that a red car was sold with a blue interior. Only the archives can confirm the paint & trim spec.

Ciao
Greig
 

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A note of caution when assuming facts from black and white photographs: They can lie and often do.

Reds and other colors can appear black. The amount of flash or light on those can also make a black appear gray, or any color appear more of a lighter color that it truly is as opposed to one’s naked eye.

I once saved a magazine cover of a car shot in black & white that I had often looked at convincing myself it was a white car with a red and white trimmed interior over the years; a common combo from that marque’s factory. I eventually met the original owner at a national meet. When I asked about the color combo he told me, “Oh, that was a yellow car with a black and white interior.”

You just never know when it comes to black and white photos. Maybe the cloth material versus vinyl can be determined, but I wouldn’t trust a guess on actual color.

As Greig mentioned, what a car (or any other cars with factory research) came with can often be fact-checked at the museum archives. Then you throw in factory changes during any moment Alfa felt like it during a production year and you’re only left with guesses unless the archives back it up too. But, how do you check a factory photo shot by their marketing department? Or an old magazine article given a car to shoot by who knows from what source? It’s a rocky, unsure path at best.

The one thing I’ve learned in my short time owning my car, researching Alfa Giuliettas and Giulia info is nothing was written in granite during a model year, and new facts still seem to be emerging as BB members post their cars’ uniqueness around the world. Okay, that’s two things…but that’s still not even taking into account what a dealer may have swapped out for a customer, or what multiple owners may have changed over the years to gum up the “facts” even further. Lastly, no one is Alfa-omnipotent…though some are pretty darn close if they are still in charge of their memory!

Ian, if you can confirm there were other cars the same year trimmed the way you’d like yours to look, absolutely go for it. I just wouldn’t suggest using an old black and white photo in a newspaper to prove it at a concours if that’s your goal. Options in your parts book, a dealer brochure, or an Alfa archive example would be more than enough to confirm any hesitation.

I went through a bit of this having to convince an interior vendor my car didn’t have red piping around its black vinyl (even though I really like that combo) until I showed them my original seat covers.

Good luck, I’m sure your interior will look perfect soon!
 

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I will add another caveat, not all cars that appear in magazines were provided by Alfa; some are used cars. There can also be a long delay between creation of the photos and publication (a June 61 magazine may show a 59 or 60 production date car).

When possible, ask the original owner of a car.
 
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