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To Pete's question:
I don't think ALFA BB does have a policy regarding situations like this.
We only have a sticky warning buyers to "Beware of Scammers."
It is Buyer beware out there for the most part.

To me, this does fall on the Vendor for not getting an accurate shipping quote.
He should have:
1. Gotten a correct shipping estimate.
or
2. Contacted the buyer for additional funds to cover shipping.

-Clark
 

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This looks like it's between the buyer and the seller, what can the BB do except to help "shame" one or the other. How will that get anything accomplished. Haven't heard the buyer's side of the story either. Best is to let the buyer and seller work this out over time, by themselves, without "intervention". But everyone is entitled to their opinions, right or wrong.
 

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Well, if the seller doesn’t put it right and he is identified, at least it may act to save others from getting ripped off. I too would love to hear the seller’s ’side’. He must have arranged the shipping as the purchaser would have no way of knowing the package size or weight, would he? I am also confident he received the requested funds, or why would he have shipped and why would the purchaser have posted this? Yes, I’d love to hear his ‘side’ of the story!
 

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If the seller set out to defraud what you are seeing on that box is bogus most likely. If it's not bogus, let the German authorities deal with him. This is on the OP to deal with especially if he does not want to offend the vendor by disclosing a name.

Ken
 

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kengta, even if the entire transaction was fraudulent, I suspect that the German authorities can’t deal with it without a live witness. I am pretty confident that the OP isn’t prepared to travel to Germany on his own dime, first to give a formal statement ( if required ) and then to attend a trial where live witnesses are required so that they can be cross-examined.
 

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My guess is that he has on site shipping at his business. He cheated the weight or size to get the shipping price as low as possible. He then put on the shipping label and had it picked up. Once it got to the DHL shipping center they double checked it and he got caught cheating the system thus they sent the package back to him. That would be my guess as to what happened. Now he is probably stuck and will not send a refund. Sending something that big and heavy from Germany is super expensive. Hate to see things like this but I am sure we have all been there at one point. Suggest checking with the wire transfer company and see if they have any protections in place.
 

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My guess is that he has on site shipping at his business. He cheated the weight or size to get the shipping price as low as possible. He then put on the shipping label and had it picked up. Once it got to the DHL shipping center they double checked it and he got caught cheating the system thus they sent the package back to him. That would be my guess as to what happened. Now he is probably stuck and will not send a refund. Sending something that big and heavy from Germany is super expensive. Hate to see things like this but I am sure we have all been there at one point. Suggest checking with the wire transfer company and see if they have any protections in place.
I think you nailed it to a tee.. and if the original FS post was the one for a price of 300 euros ( or was it $'s) and the agreed deal was consummated for 160...this was heading for a flaming crash if there was any kind of snafu or hiccup..
 

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I like the term “German authorities”. Who you going to call? “German authorities”. Show me your papers!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
As some have asked and others have pointed out, the original FS post was on the BB, as well as all communications. The price was 300 Euro. The seller insisted on a bank wire as the only form of payment he would accept. He packed the seats, he weighed them, and he quoted the shipping cost to me. I paid for the seats and shipping in one sum. As far as "working it out between the buyer and seller," I tried that for two weeks until he today told me he would be giving me no money and would only ship the seats again if I paid for the shipping again. Being international, and having sent a bank wire, I have no other recourse than to appeal to the BB members for advice. I sent the seller a message with a link to this thread so he has every opportunity to post his side of the story if he chooses. If my only recourse is to warn others not to deal with him, that's what I'll do. But it's important for the skeptics to realize that unscrupulous sellers ruin it for everyone by taking honesty and honor away from the person-to-person selling environment we enjoy here.
 

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If they weren't technically "shipped," my question would be does the entire shipping amount need to be paid again, or just the difference?

Seems reasonable to perhaps split the difference in what was quoted and what was actually required after the seller handed it to the shipper. If I make a mistake on shipping, I cover it.
 

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But in this case, he's completely wrong, regardless of people's past experiences with him.
 
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FACTS

You entered into a deal in good faith to purchase the seats for an agreed upon price of 300 euros and an agreed upon shipping cost of 160 euros. Your decision to move forward with the deal was based on a total price of 460 euros (assuming there was no liability disclaimer from the seller to cover himself in the event of mishap). Because the premise of 460 euros is no longer valid, you shouldn't be held bound to terms of a deal that no longer exist. Generally speaking, since this is an experienced seller with two shop locations, it can be reasonably inferred that he should have a professional level of knowledge and experience with regards to shipping (i.e. it was patently obvious that the original quote was an unreliable figure). Thus the seller cannot plead ignorant and further should not extort additional costs to the buyer while holding original payment hostage.

However, as a buyer, there is also "caveat emptor" at play. Buyer could have done reasonable research on his own to verify the accuracy of shipping quotes as well as perhaps drafted clearer, more protective, language in a bill of sale in the event of issues. A deal is a two-way street with regards to responsibility.

EQUITABLE ACTION

In my opinion, buyer should get refunded the entire 300 euros for the seats and split the 160 euro shipping cost 50/50 with the seller. Commerce doesn't always consummate even with the best of intentions.

You should contact the German police in that area and file a police report. Germany is not some 3rd-world war-torn nation. I would imagine they could accommodate your complaint. Plus, since the world has migrated to Zoom calls because of COVID, it may not be so difficult to go down that path. This is theft and/or extortion!
 

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Absolutely what Edgewood sent above.
 
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