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My brother is dropping off his 1993 164L with manual transmission, 203K miles, for me to do some maintenance. His biggest complaint is an oil leak at the rear of engine, it drips onto the exhaust pipe, leaves a pretty big puddle on the driveway lately. I'm guessing it is the rear main seal. How can I be sure it is the rear main seal? Is there anything easier I can do other than replacing the rear main seal (maybe some type type of oil additive sealant)?
 

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My brother is dropping off his 1993 164L with manual transmission, 203K miles, for me to do some maintenance. His biggest complaint is an oil leak at the rear of engine, it drips onto the exhaust pipe, leaves a pretty big puddle on the driveway lately. I'm guessing it is the rear main seal. How can I be sure it is the rear main seal? Is there anything easier I can do other than replacing the rear main seal (maybe some type type of oil additive sealant)?
Remove lower steel cover from bell housing and see if oil coming down backside of flywheel or outer part of rear bearing cap cigarette seals or oil pan gasket.
 

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I'd be checking for leaks higher up, as in the distributor drive seal, oil pressure gauge sender, valve cover gaskets and that sort of thing. I think the front downpipe crosses under the end of the sump rather then the flywheel but it's been a while since I looked. oil dripping off the sump from higher up is more likely than the rear main seal.
 

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I'd be checking for leaks higher up, as in the distributor drive seal, oil pressure gauge sender, valve cover gaskets and that sort of thing. I think the front downpipe crosses under the end of the sump rather then the flywheel but it's been a while since I looked. oil dripping off the sump from higher up is more likely than the rear main seal.
Yea good idea, I recently had front valve cover leaking rear corner onto front pipe. Which pipe is smoking?

Also look at IM axle seal in tranny and check tranny fluid level.

Is it engine oil, ATF or Gear lube?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for all the good ideas, that gives me a few things to check, the car just arrived, I'll try to look at it tomorrow, I will report my findings.
 

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Oil leak

Rear main seal leaks are common, but usually small enough to ignore. Sometimes the bolts holding the oil pan can get loose to allow an oil leak there. You can tighten them with the flywheel cover off, but be careful not to over do it to the point of breaking a bolt.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It is NOT the things I checked first: oil pressure sender, valve cover gasket, distributor o-ring, loose oil pan bolts. The backside of the flywheel is dry. It is wet at the rear of the oil pan, the rear main seal and/or the cigarett seals my be leaking somewhat, BUT

The last thing I checked was the transmission fluid (because it is so difficult), I had to add almost 2 quarts! With the engine running it drips profusely, about 1 drop every three seconds from the lowest part of the bell housing. What could be causing that leak? What needs to be done to repair it?
 

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It is NOT the things I checked first: oil pressure sender, valve cover gasket, distributor o-ring, loose oil pan bolts. The backside of the flywheel is dry. It is wet at the rear of the oil pan, the rear main seal and/or the cigarett seals my be leaking somewhat, BUT

The last thing I checked was the transmission fluid (because it is so difficult), I had to add almost 2 quarts! With the engine running it drips profusely, about 1 drop every three seconds from the lowest part of the bell housing. What could be causing that leak? What needs to be done to repair it?
Tranny input seal.
 

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Then, while you are at it, regrind flywheel and replace rear main engine seal. Also, there is a method for a quick re-seal of the leaky cigarette seals without pulling the pan (ask the guys at DiFatta Brothers)...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The CarDisc manual says to "remove the front exhaust pipes and the rear exhaust manifold", why is it necessary to remove these in order to remove the transmission? Also, I've been thinking, could the transmission input shaft seal failure have been caused by a failing input shaft bearing? The transmission was working properly and sounded OK.
 

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The CarDisc manual says to "remove the front exhaust pipes and the rear exhaust manifold", why is it necessary to remove these in order to remove the transmission? Also, I've been thinking, could the transmission input shaft seal failure have been caused by a failing input shaft bearing? The transmission was working properly and sounded OK.
Probably to gain access to top starter bolt but you can get to it with luck by going in from front of starter under heat shield with 13mm socket and extension and ratchet. Probably one of the most un-fun jobs to do on the 164.

Yes, failing ball bearing style input bearing could cause damagew to input shaft seal which is located inside throw out bearing guide sleeve.

Once tranny out remove three m8 bolts and remove giude and inspect to see if ball bearing or roller bearing installed.

Leak could also be from where guide mates to tranny case if old style without rubber oring. The new style TO brg guide has inner shaft seal and outer oring seal.
 

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That input shaft seal could have been damaged by a worn input shaft bearing even if that bearing was replaced if the seal was not also renewed. The worn bearing causes a little wobble in the shaft which in turn could prematurely wear that seal, even though the seal might last for years after the bearing was updated.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Do you think this transmission has a ball or roller input bearing? I think it is original, my brother doesn't recall ever having any transmission bearing replacement. VIN# ZAREA33L3P6270900.

CarDisc says to use a "cherry picker" with the car on a lift to remove the transmission, I do not have either of those. Can I remove/replace the transmission with the car on jack stands and a floor jack under the transmission?

It definitely comes out horizontally through the wheel well, it can't be hoisted from above right?
 

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Chances are if car is 164L it has second generation 60800240 ball bearing with stainless steel wire cage instead of earlier "nylon" style. Neither type last like like the overload roller version found in the S and later 24v models.

You can manhandle tranny out through left wheel well with jack under engine.

Current number for roller bearing is 46403722 earlier number was 60810762.

Throw out bearing sleeve with inner input shaft seal and outer oring assembly is 46411951.


00464037220000 Z ROLLER BEARIN

00464119510000 COVER
 

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Cherry picker and lift not required to remove the transmission as Steve stated. I've done it a couple of times by myself with the car on jack stands. If you're using a floor jack, use a block of wood to spread the jack load over the bottom of the oil pan. Hope your floor jack doesn't leak down slowly like one of mine:).
Reinstalling the repaired transmission can be done by yourself, but it is quite a job. It's nice to have an extra hand.
 

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It is NOT the things I checked first: oil pressure sender, valve cover gasket, distributor o-ring, loose oil pan bolts. The backside of the flywheel is dry. It is wet at the rear of the oil pan, the rear main seal and/or the cigarett seals my be leaking somewhat, BUT

The last thing I checked was the transmission fluid (because it is so difficult), I had to add almost 2 quarts! With the engine running it drips profusely, about 1 drop every three seconds from the lowest part of the bell housing. What could be causing that leak? What needs to be done to repair it?
Yikes, They only hold 2 quarts! :eek:

If you do get a hold of a cherry picker, you can use it to pull the trans out the top if you turn it just right. Very tight fit pulling it straight up. Very hard work (awkward and heavy) pulling it out the side. Neither is easy or fun. I still prefer pulling the engine and trans all together and fixing EVERYTHING that needs to be done all at once (such as P/S rack, fuel lines, brake lines, shifter bushing, swaybar bushings, motor mounts, cam seals, whatever else, etc). Do it all and then enjoy the car for a good long time thereafter.
Charles
 

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Reinstalling the repaired transmission can be done by yourself, but it is quite a job. It's nice to have an extra hand.
SEVERAL extra hands is even better. After initially failing to get the gearbox mated back up on my own I invited a friend over who was once an Italian mechanic and owned a 164 of his own. Two of us couldn't get it back in place so I invited two more friends over and with four of us pushing, pulling, etc it went right in.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
CarDisc never mentions removing the starter in their instructions for manual transmission removal, pages 13-5 to 13-11. Did I miss it or is it an oversight on their part?
 
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