Is a 1750 Spider a "Duetto"

3517 Views 28 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Alfa Canadese, May 26, 2015

87testa

Discussion Starter · May 22, 2015

Calling the experts:

My friend who is an experienced "Alfa expert" is having a hard time considering a 1750 Spider Veloce as a "Duetto" . His position is the original 1600 was the Duetto and my position is the 1750 is an updated version but every bit a Duetto.

I am asking the educated community for their opinion and links to previous discussions on this topic.

Thanks for your replies.

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86spider

· #2 · May 23, 2015

It is my understanding that only the 66 and early 67 cars could be a Duetto. Late 67 saw the introduction of the 1750 Spider due to a naming conflict with a cookie or cracker. Trademark or copyright issues. Or so the legend goes as it was told to me.

Alfa Canadese

· #3 · May 23, 2015

I'm 87testa's friend, not an expert but a long time collector of pre 70s Alfas, and my point is that after the 1750 roundtails came out no-one called them Duettos. It is a generational thing that started much later. In those days, after the square tail came out, they were all called roundtails (or boat-tails to some) but 1600cc were Duettos and 1750cc and 1750s. That is how they were distinguished. It is only later that the newly initiated started calling them all Duettos. I expect that happened originally because of the prestige of the more sought after (at that time) 1600s, partly because of it's appearance in the movie The Graduate.
1600 Duettos still command a premium over a 1750 in equal condition in the market place.
Times have change the terminology and us old farts have a hard time with that. If you were collecting Alfas in the 70s you will probably agree with me. If you started in the 90's or later probably not. Fusi (3rd edition, 1978), calls them 1750 Spider Veloces and Giulia 1600 Duettos, even though it wasn't an official factory name. There will never be definitive answer to this dilemma. It has happened and will not reverse itself.
It's still fun to discuss, like who was the best driver ever in F1, or best player in hockey, even if there is no right answer.
By the way, I don't currently own any boat tail, but have had both in the past.

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Charles Berman

· #4 · May 23, 2015

My understanding is that only the 1600s were "Duettos". The 1750s are Spider Veloces.

alfa2go

· #5 · May 23, 2015

If non were officially called a Duetto?... Open slather I reckon&#55357;&#56859;

Reactions: 1

Craig_m67

· #6 · May 23, 2015

alfa2go said:
If non were officially called a Duetto?... Open slather I reckon��

Ooooh.. Fighting words!

It was always supposed to be Duetto, unlike the Montreal which was unimaginativly named after an exposition (which itself conjures up Austin Powers and some shagadelic porn - Google is your NSFW friend).

.... only the 1600 Giulia (105)Spider is referred to as a Duetto.

alfa2go

· #7 · May 23, 2015

Craig_m67 said:
Ooooh.. Fighting words!

It was always supposed to be Duetto, unlike the Montreal which was unimaginativly named after an exposition (which itself conjures up Austin Powers and some shagadelic porn - Google is your NSFW friend).

.... only the 1600 Giulia (105)Spider is referred to as a Duetto.

Bahahahaha! Maybe some of us want a bit of shagadelic porn in our lives.

I prefer to just call em roundtails anyway.

flivesay

· #8 · May 23, 2015

Not a Duetto. 1750 Spider Veloce--Roundtail

87testa

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 23, 2015

flivesay said:
Not a Duetto. 1750 Spider Veloce--Roundtail

None of the roundtails were ever badged as Duetto's by the factory. Due to patent rights on the name the Alfa factory did not use the name. The 1600 is a 1600 spider. They are both Series one spiders and they both have the exact same body style. If the 1750 spider was not considered a Duetto why is it in the Duetto registry?

You can call one a 1600 Duetto and the other one a 1750 Duetto to distinguish or not call any of the two a Duetto also.

Wille R.

· #10 · May 23, 2015 (Edited)

flivesay said:
Not a Duetto. 1750 Spider Veloce--Roundtail

And the 1600 Spider. The first broshure from Brochures says the same.

1966 Spider 1600 - Italian

But who cares anyway. Enjoy your Alfa.

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flivesay

· #11 · May 23, 2015

Isn't it accepted in some parts of the world to call all spiders Duettos? Not just the roundtails?

Wille R.

· #12 · May 23, 2015 (Edited)

flivesay said:
Isn't it accepted in some parts of the world to call all spiders Duettos? Not just the roundtails?

The Italians refer to all 105/115 spiders as Duetto. I.e. 1966-1993, the say Duetto 1st series (roundtails), the Duetto CT (Coda tronca), Duetto Aerodinamica (or 3rd series) and finally Duetto IV serie. And they are all happy with this. :smile2:

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Shakey

· #13 · May 23, 2015

It doesn't seem like we resolved anything.

Alfa Canadese

· #14 · May 23, 2015

As I said before, we never will, but it is fun to here everyone's opinion.

bellagt

· #15 · May 23, 2015

Shakey said:
It doesn't seem like we resolved anything.

It all seems very Italian (lotsa words and arm waving that is)...

Being an unbiased GTVer, I always thought the Duetto referred to the original 1600, and the '69 1750 was a Spider Veloce... The '69 1750 may be referred to as a Series 1 or round/boat tail, but it is not a Duetto. Like the GTV, '71 was the transition year for higher safety requirements and the tail got squared off "coda tronca" with larger tail lights and bigger rear bumper for the start of Series 2.

Craig_m67

· #16 · May 23, 2015 (Edited)

87testa said:
Calling the experts:

My friend who is an experienced "Alfa expert" is having a hard time considering a 1750 Spider Veloce as a "Duetto" . His position is the original 1600 was the Duetto and my position is the 1750 is an updated version but every bit a Duetto.

I am asking the educated community for their opinion and links to previous discussions on this topic.

Thanks for your replies.

87testa said:
None of the roundtails were ever badged as Duetto's by the factory. Due to patent rights on the name the Alfa factory did not use the name. The 1600 is a 1600 spider. They are both Series one spiders and they both have the exact same body style. If the 1750 spider was not considered a Duetto why is it in the Duetto registry?

You can call one a 1600 Duetto and the other one a 1750 Duetto to distinguish or not call any of the two a Duetto also.

Why ask the question only to shoot down the answers, what exactly do you seek?
(An original 1600 Duetto by the sound of it )

It is common knowledge that the 1600 Spider is referred to as a Duetto. The name was never officially used for legal reasons as you point out. The later 1750 Veloce and 1300 Junior are referred to as roundtails, rundheck, ossodiseppia but never Duetto.

The Duetto body (construction) does differ slightly from the S1 Veloce or Junior Spiders. For starters the radiator support, intake cowling and the bonnet inner A frame are all different.

1. Alfa Romeo does (now) refer to the 1600 Spider "Duetto" on their official website.
2. Elvira Ruocco (Factory Archive) has documented the competition held to name the new 1600 Spider "Duetto".

87testa

Discussion Starter · #17 · May 23, 2015

Craig_m67 said:
Why ask the question only to shoot down the answers, what exactly do you seek?
(An original 1600 Duetto by the sound of it )

It is common knowledge that the 1600 Spider is referred to as a Duetto. The name was never officially used for legal reasons as you point out. The later 1750 Veloce and 1300 Junior are referred to as roundtails, rundheck, ossodiseppia but never Duetto.

The Duetto body (construction) does differ slightly from the S1 Veloce or Junior Spiders. For starters the radiator support, intake cowling and the bonnet inner A frame are all different.

1. Alfa Romeo does (now) refer to the 1600 Spider "Duetto" on their official website.
2. Elvira Ruocco (Factory Archive) has documented the competition held to name the new 1600 Spider "Duetto".

I ask the question to get replies but I also present my side of the debate.

There may be some inner structural differences but the outer body is the same as far as I can tell. Usually, lights, grills, trim get some kind of change when there is a model change.

Thanks for your input.

Reactions: 1

Wille R.

· #18 · May 23, 2015

87testa said:
I ask the question to get replies but I also present my side of the debate.

There may be some inner structural differences but the outer body is the same as far as I can tell. Usually, lights, grills, trim get some kind of change when there is a model change.

Thanks for your input.

Hai ragione, sempre ragione. The different versions had different engines, tranny system, alternator/generator, the 1300 had a black bar instead of stainless lower bumper and a fixed quater window. But almost everyone even at car shows (where I've been many, many times with my 1967) cannot see from the outside what version it is.

In Italy BTW, home of the Duetto, the major clubs are teh Duettoclub Italia and Club Alfa Romeo Duetto, CARD. They are both officially sponsored by Alfa Romeo since many years. They have all "Duettos" from 1966 - 1993 among the members and all are very happy with that. They only distinguish "la prima serie" when you ask them. But the whole bunch are Duettos. Just my 0.02

:smile2:

87testa

Discussion Starter · #19 · May 23, 2015

Wille R. said:
Hai ragione, sempre ragione. The different versions had different engines, tranny system, alternator/generator, the 1300 had a black bar instead of stainless lower bumper and a fixed quater window. But almost everyone even at car shows (where I've been many, many times with my 1967) cannot see from the outside what version it is.

In Italy BTW, home of the Duetto, the major clubs are teh Duettoclub Italia and Club Alfa Romeo Duetto, CARD. They are both officially sponsored by Alfa Romeo since many years. They have all "Duettos" from 1966 - 1993 among the members and all are very happy with that. They only distinguish "la prima serie" when you ask them. But the whole bunch are Duettos. Just my 0.02

:smile2:

Grazie Wille. Io la vedo cosi.

I like the Italian nomenclature for the Spiders.

BTW Thanks for your work with the Registry and helping us with the literature.

Reactions: 1

Alfa Canadese

· #20 · May 23, 2015

My point is that this is a generational thing. None of those clubs existed in the '70s so they are consistant with the newer Alfisti that call them all Duettos. Willy R when did you buy your first Alfa?

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