[rj7630]

The slowest delay on my 91L is about 1 second. This is way too fast for most conditions I drive in. Is there anyway to increase the delaytime?

 

[AlexGS]

The slowest delay on my 91L is about 1 second. This is way too fast for most conditions I drive in. Is there anyway to increase the delaytime?

Very good question! This is the sort of thing that I play with when I find it, which I haven't yet on the 164. You will need to do a little homework (that I haven't done) to find where the variable delay takes place - I think that the stalk has a variable resistor (single yellow (?) wire to the wiper motor), and the wiper motor has the delay circuit. If this is the case, then you would need to increase a resistor value in the delay circuit so as to increase the time that it takes for the relevant capacitor to discharge, as that will be what gives the time delay between wipes.

It almost sounds as though you have a dried-out capacitor or similar fault in the existing circuit, as the delay should be more like five-eight seconds on the longest setting. So perhaps take the wiper motor circuit off and try replacing a few of the capacitors/resistors or trace the circuit back from the transistor that switches the motor on and off. Of course, you could always just change the wiper motor for another one!

Assuming the circuit is working correctly, if the stalk does have a variable resistance, you can just put a resistor in series with the existing resistance - select a value to be the same as the resistance when set to the slowest delay, in order to double the delay time.

Someone else here may have a wiring diagram that identifies which wire carries the intermittent-time delay setting from the stalk - I believe that it is just a single wire, so must have a varying resistance as I described.

Thanks,
-Alex

 

[rj7630]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not real big into electrical stuff at this level. I can find a resistor and a capacitor on a board, but not too sure I want to get involved at that level. Probably a used wiper motor makesthe most sense.

 

[AlexGS]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not real big into electrical stuff at this level. I can find a resistor and a capacitor on a board, but not too sure I want to get involved at that level. Probably a used wiper motor makesthe most sense.

Yes - sorry that I wasn't as helpful as I wanted to be, because having started on the post, I realised that my photos/wiring diagram of the wiper motor circuit were for a Lancia Thema, which is a similar car but the wiper is one of a few things that are different!

I think the one thing that is for certain is that one second is much shorter than usual. I just went out and tested mine, and found that on the slowest setting, there is a delay of seven seconds after one wipe finishes and before the next starts. This reduces to about one second on the fastest setting.

I assume that if yours is one second on the slowest setting, the fastest setting must give no delay at all. OR - did you mean that the *shortest* delay is one second, which is the same as mine?

Cheers,
-Alex

 

[rj7630]

No, my slowest time is about a second and it gets faster from there. On the fast setting, there is really almost zero delay.

 

[Del]

According to the wiring diagram, the intermediate wiper speed is controlled by the steering column mounted wiper stalk control switch (B2). The selected setting (position 1, 2, or 3) is sent to the motor (P27). It follows then that either the stalk control switch on the steering column itself is faulty or has poor wiring connections, or the speed control wiring and/or swash plate assy at the motor itself is defective or has poor connections.

I would start by checking the involved connections at both locations (stalk and motor) for both cleanliness and matching wire color for correct location at the connections. There appears to be a pair of two wire connectors on the rhs of the steering column, one above and one below the wiper stalk. There is one multi-connector at the motor. The colors at the motor are, in order, black, gray, light blue, purple, gray, black, pink/black, white/black. The matching colors at the stalk are: P1 = light blue, P2 = gray, black, pink/black, P3 = purple, gray.

You could also use a volt meter at the motor connections to time the triggering pulse intervals received at the motor. These timed pulses just initiate the turning of the motor, and the motor internal electrical swash plate controls the complete rotation (at regular speed) of the motor back to the rest position. Then the motor waits for the next initiating pulse from the stalk control switch. If the timed pulses are as you would expect, then it would appear the problem is with the motor swash plate control assy. I suspect you would have to obtain another motor assy, as these swash plate assys do wear out with time.

For those who love to mess with things, these assys can be taken apart, cleaned, lubed and readjusted, up to a point. I've done it a couple of times.

good luck,

 

[AlexGS]

According to the wiring diagram, the intermediate wiper speed is controlled by the steering column mounted wiper stalk control switch (B2). The selected setting (position 1, 2, or 3) is sent to the motor (P27). ,

I think, rather than the speed, we were talking about the intermittent delay. Rotating the stalk provides five positions. Are you saying that there are five wires - one for each delay setting? Does the diagram show a resistance in the stalk or a five-position switch (in addition to the three-position switch for the speed selection that you mentioned).

The colors at the motor are, in order, black, gray, light blue, purple, gray, black, pink/black, white/black. The matching colors at the stalk are: P1 = light blue, P2 = gray, black, pink/black, P3 = purple, gray.

Thanks for looking those up.

Then the motor waits for the next initiating pulse from the stalk control switch. If the timed pulses are as you would expect, then it would appear the problem is with the motor swash plate control assy. I suspect you would have to obtain another motor assy, as these swash plate assys do wear out with time.

I still think the pulses originate not from the switch, but instead from the circuit board/relay within the motor assy.

Thanks,
-Alex

 

[Del]

I was referring to the rate of the pulses, not the speed of the motor itself. The speed of the motor does not change, only the number of times it is initiated in a given time span.

It is possible that the rate of the pulses is initiated within the motor assy itself due to a different input from the different positions of the stalk; however, I've had them apart (one for a 164S, and one for a Milano), and I don't remember such circuitry (maybe I'm just getting forgetful in my old age). I know there is the swash plate assy, and I've rebuilt those before to cure these types of ills, but I don't have a motor assy right now to tear apart for inspection. Would be interesting to have a wiring diagram of the motor assy.

Ah, now looking at the parts eper disc, I see that there is a module which connects to the motor/gearbox assy which is called the intermediate (speed) switch. That must be the controller. Well, I guess I forgot about that. You may not be able to fix that, so a used motor/controller assy may be in your future.

I think one needs to do the connections check first to get started.

 

[AlexGS]

...
Ah, now looking at the parts eper disc, I see that there is a module which connects to the motor/gearbox assy which is called the intermediate (speed) switch. That must be the controller. Well, I guess I forgot about that. You may not be able to fix that, so a used motor/controller assy may be in your future.

Thanks for the clarification, I follow now

This might be the point to mention that I have other 'issues' with my wipers... Sometimes they operate from the parked position, sometimes they operate from the raised position. What is supposed to happen is that the first stroke leaves the wipers in a raised position, at an angle, which extends their reach towards the edge of the windscreen. Turning the switch off causes the wipers to take a final stroke of victory as the motor runs in reverse to put them away in the parked position.

Instead on mine the first stroke sometimes leaves the wipers in the parked position. I always get the final stroke, but sometimes it has no effect because the wipers were never 'raised'. Sometimes it sorts itself out when switched to continuous wiping. I think it might be something simple, like the motor crank arm fitted at the wrong angle.

This also means that the wiper doesn't go close enough to the edge of the screen. It's not very good even when working correctly - you could call it a five-inch shortfall. I think the crank arm on the driver's side wiper needs to be made shorter, to lengthen the stroke. Then the angle of the blade would need to be adjusted so that the blade ends up vertical. I'm also considering fitting the pivotted blade linkage off a Thema (a second smaller arm swivels the blade), since I think that was designed to solve the problem, though the Thema doesn't have the parked-raised behaviour mentioned above. The passenger's side wiper seems satisfactory.

Also the linkage on mine makes a few clicks and clunks and I expect the motor would benefit from new brushes etc.

Cheers,
-Alex

 

[Del]

Hmmm, sounds messy.

A bad/worn swash plate assy can cause the wipers to park or not park, or stop somewhere else, as the swash plate assy is a disc with copper paths on it on which conducting arms rub on as it spins. These arms need to be adjusted due to wear, and relubed with grease for them to properly control the sweep of the arms. Otherwise, who knows what you get.

Also, loose arms on the drive shafts can also cause the arms to not finish a full swipe, but end up somewhere in the swipe, and then perhaps returning as they should. This is a common ailment, as the arms are not particularly good metal compared to the shafts, and one or both sockets tend to wear/work loose.

Since all these wiper/motor assys are the same for all the 91-93 164s (the 94-95 are different, and some have reverted to the simpler 91-93 design) you shouldn't have to mess with changing arm lengths and any other alterations. I find that when properly adjusted, the 91-93 setup is satisfactory. BTW, the motor does not reverse rotation, the parking part of the sweep cycle is part of the bellcrank design.

Check the entire assy, including the mounting of the arms, for tightness first, and check the wire connections. If all of this is fine, then it is your choice to either dig into the motor assy, or just buy a used complete mechanism/motor/arm wiper assembly from someone. There are several on ebay I think.

Play with the old one later at your pleasure. Interesting mechanisms.