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Discussion Starter #21
Late step noses 1300 GTj did get that "1750 type" dash although I believe it is not a 1750 dash as the GTj was moulded differently along the lower edge. Where is your choke and accel lever and look in the area of the small gauge pod. And there were indicator light location variations from 1750 I believe.

k
Ahhh ok, sorry I thought it was the same.

The choke and hand throttle is on the left hand side of the steering wheel underneath the switches for the interior fans, wipers and dash backlighting.

The indicator lights are on a very small piece of veneer between the speedo and rev counter binnacles.


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Supposedly the new dash was introduced in 1969 ( according to D'Amico & Tabucchi) - not sure whether that was model year or actual year - together with a rear anti-roll bar. 14" wheels became optional - one would assume that was around the same time when the move from low arches to high arches on the rear fenders was made - starting chassis # for that was 1260001 (1969 build?). Last stepnose supposedly was # 1257114 (1971 build?).

Door handles and fixtures are correct for you car. Reflector and handle not so much. Door card and handle should look like early 1750GTV.

Definitely have driven a 1300 GTjunior with LHD trunk opener ...
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Supposedly the new dash was introduced in 1969 ( according to D'Amico & Tabucchi) - not sure whether that was model year or actual year - together with a rear anti-roll bar. 14" wheels became optional - one would assume that was around the same time when the move from low arches to high arches on the rear fenders was made - starting chassis # for that was 1260001 (1969 build?). Last stepnose supposedly was # 1257114 (1971 build?).

Door handles and fixtures are correct for you car. Reflector and handle not so much. Door card and handle should look like early 1750GTV.

Definitely have driven a 1300 GTjunior with LHD trunk opener ...
Ahh ok, my car has a rear anti-roll bar too, not sure about the wheel arches though?

I've attached a pic of what it looked like before I lowered it (sports springs and bilstein dampers)


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So apparently I’m meant to have no carpets but these rubber mats
Yes, that's how the Juniors were trimmed. Note that the transmission and driveshaft tunnel covers aren't rubber mats; they're vinyl. Similar material to what is on the door panels.

The headliner is a light colour in the correct snake bite material, but is quite badly stained, possibly from a previous owner who smoked.
The brown stains may not be from smoke. Older headliners just discolor that way. It might be the foam above the fabric bleeding some sort of pigment. People have reported positive results from spraying with ivory vinyl paint. But replacing the headliner is the proper solution. Problem is, that's a big job, necessitating the removal of all the glass.
 

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Yes, that's how the Juniors were trimmed. Note that the transmission and driveshaft tunnel covers aren't rubber mats; they're vinyl. Similar material to what is on the door panels.



  • The brown stains may not be from smoke. Older headliners just discolor that way. It might be the foam above the fabric bleeding some sort of pigment. People have reported positive results from spraying with ivory vinyl paint. But replacing the headliner is the proper solution. Problem is, that's a big job, necessitating the removal of all the glass.

Jay.
Did the left hand trunk opener appear in the 1600 Sprint GT and/or 1600 GTV?

Ken
 

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Did the left hand trunk opener appear in the 1600 Sprint GT and/or 1600 GTV?
Sorry, Ken, I'm no authority on that. I have heard that the LH trunk release came with the introduction of high rear wheel arches. But this is probably one of those things that as soon as you say it, someone has a counter-example.

I can confirm that my own 105.02 has low arches and a RH trunk release.
 

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Hi Tomwazza,
As new owners to 105 cars or to a specific 105 model like your situation it seems that most are keen to find out more about their car's mechanicals, body and interior.
Over the years, the focus has been repairing/replacing the mechanicals. As you can see there is still a little confusion about body and as for interior the area that is least understood there is little or no understanding for some models.

Every one has their own reason for owning a 105. I'm not telling you who to listen to or what to do with your car, but the reality is there is limited correct information freely/readily available when it comes to some 105 models.

For those who want their 105 to be factory original then when researching your 105 you need to keep in mind that there are no short cuts to working things out as to what is Alfa Romeo factory original (installed in the factory and listed in the Italian parts manual) and what was non standard /made up to replace worn out items.

I used the Italian parts manuals mainly to work out what was correct for my GT Veloce 1600 and have shared the details here and on Wiki. There are some limited details I've posted about GTJ 1300 on Wiki, (for mechanical) (Thanks to OKP who have made the original Italian parts manuals available for most 105 models, here is a link for your car https://www.okp.de/fileadmin/Download/Ersatzteilkataloge/105_1300_GT_Junior.pdf)
Good luck
Regards Steve
 

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Those seats look like the ones which were in my 64 Sprint GT, with blue vinyl outsides with light blue cloth inserts. Brings back memories. Were very nice seats. One note though, those seat back stepped hinge pins/bolts would break, at least the original ones did. Had to send to the factory to get new ones, the local dealer said he couldn't get any. The factory sent me a new parts book free of charge, and said to just order parts directly from them. This was in 66. Don't have that book, but still have the owner's manual.
 

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According to the GT junior parts book that Steve linked to above dated 9/69 and my book 1/70, the world for the GTj changed after chassis 1211001 LHD and 1290251 RHD. Rear fenders, left and right rear door jambs, front cross member to 4 bolt type, steering knuckle, seats, carpet (that looks like ruber and vinyl) what else??????.

The dash change to GTV style came at 1230001LHD and 1292001 RHD
 

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As Ken mentioned the changes were occurring as per the parts books to reflect the car's production changes.
The other things that I think that changed for the smooth nose in ~1971/72 GTJ 1300 was the rear floors, rear parcel shelf dimensions, similar in dimensions to a 1750 series 2. That why if you have both of theses cars 1971/72 GTJ 1300 and a 1750 series 2 you will notice the rear seats are interchangeable.
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
Hi Tomwazza,
As new owners to 105 cars or to a specific 105 model like your situation it seems that most are keen to find out more about their car's mechanicals, body and interior.
Over the years, the focus has been repairing/replacing the mechanicals. As you can see there is still a little confusion about body and as for interior the area that is least understood there is little or no understanding for some models.

Every one has their own reason for owning a 105. I'm not telling you who to listen to or what to do with your car, but the reality is there is limited information freely/readily available when it comes to some 105 models.

For those who want their 105 to be factory original then when researching your 105 you need to keep in mind that there are no short cuts to working things out as to what is Alfa Romeo factory original (installed in the factory and listed in the Italian parts manual) and what was non standard /made up to replace worn out items.

I used the Italian parts manuals mainly to work out what was correct for my GT Veloce 1600 and have shared the details here and on Wiki. There are some limited details I've posted about GTJ 1300 on Wiki, (for mechanical) (Thanks to OKP who have made the original Italian parts manuals available for most 105 models, here is a link for your car https://www.okp.de/fileadmin/Download/Ersatzteilkataloge/105_1300_GT_Junior.pdf)
Good luck
Regards Steve
Thanks for the manual @Steve105, I've owned my car for just over four years now and I love it. The lines, driving position and driving experience really ticks a lot of my boxes, it's not quick but when you're low down (my car is lowered on sports springs) and on a good road (preferably down hill haha) I wouldn't swap it for anything else.

I was 27 when I bought it, knew very little about the model and probably bought too hastily, but the car is mine and I want to look after it and where possible return it to how it would've looked when it left the factory. I'm not too anal about it being 100% correct, but for example, my dash needs a new veneer and the top is cracked a little, if I know that I need a new dash anyway (as it appears I do) then I won't bother repairing it and I'll put the money towards getting the correct part.

According to the GT junior parts book that Steve linked to above dated 9/69 and my book 1/70, the world for the GTj changed after chassis 1211001 LHD and 1290251 RHD. Rear fenders, left and right rear door jambs, front cross member to 4 bolt type, steering knuckle, seats, carpet (that looks like ruber and vinyl) what else??????.

The dash change to GTV style came at 1230001LHD and 1292001 RHD
Ah ok, so my VIN is AR1220### so based on the parts manual it looks like I should really have the flat top dash, which is a bit of a pain in the arse haha.

Just out of curiosity do you know why some cars have a left hand air box with the cross over and some have the right hand cylindrical air box (which mine has)?

My car also has hanging pedals, not floor mounted, do you know when this change came in too?

P.S. - Thanks for all the help so far guys, I'm just trying to get some direction and clarity about how the car should look.
 

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Thanks for the manual @Steve105,

Just out of curiosity do you know why some cars have a left hand air box with the cross over and some have the right hand cylindrical air box (which mine has)?

My car also has hanging pedals, not floor mounted, do you know when this change came in too?
This last two sentences made me scratch my head!! if your car is a truly ´68 model (wich from the vin number it is) than is hihgly modified. It should have flat dash, cross over air box and mechanical clutch with floor mounted pedals!!! please confirm all those things, over the high or low rear wheel arches its where the change over started so it could have both
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I think it's a bit of a Frankenstein to be honest, I suspect that somebody may have had two cars and made an ok one from two bad ones...

I'm pretty sure that the pedals are hanging not floor mounted, I'll have to check.

The car runs and I drive it quite often in summer, but it might become a bit of a rolling restoration getting it back to how it should be.

I'm a bit confused about the rear arches, are there any photos of before and after?

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I owned 1224956 ages ago, when it was just a used car. Tired, but not mixed up with other cars. Fusi says built in 1968, I never inquired.

The car had the following:
  • floor pedals
  • cable clutch
  • LHD trunk opener
  • Sprint GTV style flat top dash with fake veneer
  • Sprint GTV style bucket seats, boar color
  • an aftermarket steering wheel ( owners manual showed an all plastic 3 spoke steering wheel)
  • black vinyl floor coverings
  • no rear sway bar
  • crossover air filter arrangement
At the same time, a friend bought a slightly later GT Junior, scalino front end, in very original condition. I think the serial number made it a 1969:
  • floor pedals
  • hydraulic clutch
  • LHD trunk opener
  • 1750 GTV dashboard, minus console
  • black vinyl seats, not deep buckets like mine, with longitudinal pleats like we see on your rear bench photo
  • the original black plastic steering wheel with two steel spokes
  • black vinyl floor coverings
  • cylindrical air filter over the carbs
Somewhere around 1970, the scaling front end was abandoned for the 1750 front end, minus the two smaller headlamps. These cars (LHD) had suspended pedals.

I used to see other GT Juniors over here that were identical to these. Another friend owned one at some point on which the front end had been replaced with the clip from a 1750 GTV.

We also saw at some point in the 80s an influx of second hand Alfas form Italy. I know for a fact that one of them had the serial number from an earlier car grafted on the firewall.
 

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Thanks for the manual @Steve105, I've owned my car for just over four years now and I love it. The lines, driving position and driving experience really ticks a lot of my boxes, it's not quick but when you're low down (my car is lowered on sports springs) and on a good road (preferably down hill haha) I wouldn't swap it for anything else.

I was 27 when I bought it, knew very little about the model and probably bought too hastily, but the car is mine and I want to look after it and where possible return it to how it would've looked when it left the factory. I'm not too anal about it being 100% correct, but for example, my dash needs a new veneer and the top is cracked a little, if I know that I need a new dash anyway (as it appears I do) then I won't bother repairing it and I'll put the money towards getting the correct part.



Ah ok, so my VIN is AR1220### so based on the parts manual it looks like I should really have the flat top dash, which is a bit of a pain in the arse haha.

Just out of curiosity do you know why some cars have a left hand air box with the cross over and some have the right hand cylindrical air box (which mine has)?

My car also has hanging pedals, not floor mounted, do you know when this change came in too?

P.S. - Thanks for all the help so far guys, I'm just trying to get some direction and clarity about how the car should look.
It is not that easy to swap dash types. It is not just pull out flat dash and bolt in 1750 type dash. If starting with a flat dash chassis you would have cut out or drill out spot welds of the dash support panel that runs side to side. Then would have find or make brackets to attach the 1750 dash to fire wall through the heater vents. Not sure if dash side brackets would need attention.

As to the brake/clutch pedals my 1970 parts book does not show hanging pedals only floor pedals. Check what you have.
 

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As Ken mentioned the changes were occurring as per the parts books to reflect the car's production changes.
The other things that I think that changed for the smooth nose in ~1971/72 GTJ 1300 was the rear floors, rear parcel shelf dimensions, similar in dimensions to a 1750 series 2. That why if you have both of theses cars 1971/72 GTJ 1300 and a 1750 series 2 you will notice the rear seats are interchangeable.
My 1970 parts book shows several if not lots of chassis changes/improvements.

3 firewalls/bulkhead. To 1211000. 1211001 to 123000. From 123001 all for LHD.

2 Steering column supports. Before and from 123001 LHD

Etc.

Then there is the question: were there in fact transition cars that would violate the parts book listings.

Ken
 

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My 1750 parts book has both pedal configurations with chassis numbers.
 

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This last two sentences made me scratch my head!! if your car is a truly ´68 model (wich from the vin number it is) than is hihgly modified. It should have flat dash, cross over air box and mechanical clutch with floor mounted pedals!!! please confirm all those things, over the high or low rear wheel arches its where the change over started so it could have both
The 1970 parts book shows both types of air filters with no references to chassis numbers.
My 1750 parts book has both pedal configurations with chassis numbers.
The so called 1969 GTV model year here in North America, whether built in 68 or 69 and whether USA or Canadian (similar to Euro) Spec had floor pedals.

The Canadian 1970 GTVs had hanging pedals in my experience.

K
 
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