[330america]

I am thinking of having a/c put into my 1967 Giulia Super (1750 upgrade). I would have everything done by a shop. Does anyone have first-hand experience about buying a package and having a professional install? Recommendations? Costs? Etc. Thank you in advance for your collected wisdom and experience. Keith Martin

 

[Alleggerita]

Keith,

Doesn't Bill Gillham in your neck of the woods have air-con in his Hooligan Super?

Personally, I don't think you need it if you open the vent windows towards you, have the windows open on the driver's door and the windows half down on the rear doors - plenty of ventilation.

 

[330america]

Thanks for the response. I just spent 800 miles in my 1967 Volvo Amazon with factory a/c, and what I learned was that the relief from wind-buffeting is tremendous. Plus I have a 7-year-old and sitting in the back seat was no longer like being in a hurricane.

I've got several Alfas, so I am just musing about putting a/c into one of them for these 80 degree plus days.

Yes, Bill lives out here, but I think he would shoot me if I asked him to install a/c into my Super. I value my friendship too much with him to inflict that on him?

 

[gprocket]

I'm installing an old air system in a GTV right now and considering it for a Super. Old Air Products - Home of the HURRICANE Heat, Cool, & Defrost A/C System - AC Unit

The unit provides both heat and AC and will replace the factory heater. This is the smallest underdash unit I've found and in the case of the GTV is completely hidden with some modification to the plenum and loosing the radio (actually using the radio opening for dash vents). Not sure about the Super yet...

Ventilation is fine but doesn't help much when the humidity is melting my back to the seat...

 

[jarrington]

Hi Keith. I've done a number of A/C conversions including a '67 Super, a '71 Berlina, and a 1960 Chevy Nomad using an off-the-shelf Vintage Air kit.

The Super always ran hot, even after having the radiator refurbished and given a clean bill of health by my local old-school radiator shop. The guy who bought the car from me (he's on the BB, may out himself here) ended up just pulling it all out. It seemed the A/C condenser blocked off enough of the airflow to make it tough to cool things, and there wasn't a lot of room to install a big electric fan or even a stock mechanical fan with the extra fan belt and re-routed radiator hoses. That could probably have been resolved with a custom radiator or similar fettling but it isn't something well documented that a shop can just fix with standard parts. 105 Alfas were never designed for A/C, so everything has to be an adaptation of a universal part.

The other annoyance on the Super was that DCOE Webers don't really have a way to install an idle compensator, so you either have to adjust the idle too high for normal non A/C driving or feather the throttle when the A/C is on to keep it from dying at idle.

My Super was swapped with a SPICA vintage 2L running DCOEs. I installed the compressor using a custom bracket mounted to the SPICA pump studs, with a 2 piece Bosch pulley to tension the belt. It worked, after a ton of time and effort to get things aligned and still have the compressor not foul against the inner fender. Another option is to hang the compressor from the head studs like the dealer installed units in SPICA vintage cars, but that requires some pretty scarce parts and looks kind of ugly in the engine bay.

The Berlina A/C turned out much better. First of all I started with a car that had been swapped with a Bosch Motronic 2L (from a '91-'94 Spider). This was great because it already had:
1. Threaded holes for a compressor bracket on the sump and front cover
2. An EFI computer designed to detect the extra load from the A/C and compensate accordingly.
The hardest part was finding an appropriate 1990-only 2 piece V-belt pulley with the Motronic trigger wheel. I had to get a 1990 parts car which provided the pulley and the compressor mounting brackets. The Berlina also had (just) enough room for me to install a pusher fan on the condensor plus a puller fan on the radiator. It's all together now and works pretty slick. (and the car is for sale ... cough cough)

Compared to the Alfas the Nomad conversion was a no-brainer. The Vintage Air kit required a bit of tweaking here and there but for the most part fit perfectly, and included everything needed down to the tube of oil to lubricate the o-rings. I had the same problem with the carburetor, though. I resolved it by driving 3 miles to the nearest O'Reilly and buying a 500 CFM Edelbrock plus an idle solenoid. SBC FTW.

MY POINT: Adding A/C to a classic Alfa can be done, but you'll need to be either a masochistic do-it-yourselfer (raises hand!) or have access to a talented shop to do the work. Since there are no paint-by-numbers Vintage Air style kits for old Alfas that shop will need to have the creativity and skill to cobble a bunch of custom pieces together, and you'll need to have a big enough wallet to compensate them for all that trial-by-error work. If you can find a shop willing to do it I'd expect several times the parts cost in labor.

Bottom line? You'd have to REALLY want to do this.

 

[kredden]

I'm the one that bought Jason's Super. I think the biggest problem with AC in the Super is space in the engine bay for an adequately sized cooling electric fan and the condenser. The rest of the AC system fit fine and was neat. It was a box hanging from the glove box area with evaporator, blowers etc. but it did eat some passenger leg room. A system that replaced the heater core & blower that fit up under the dash would be nicer but a much more involved install.

The main problem was that the biggest fan that would fit up front was a very small 9" (IIRC) pusher fan which had to be off to one side because of the condenser. In fact it was hanging over the edge of the condenser a bit so I have a feeling most of the cool air was getting pushed out there rather than through the condenser and radiator (pass of least resistance). I tried to slide it over more but it just wouldn't fit.

Because of this the car would overheat if I got stuck in traffic on a 85+ day even when I didn't have the AC on as there was just not enough air getting pushed through the radiator. If it would have only done that when I had the AC on I would have lived with it but since it would do it with the system off I had to do something.

I could see no way to get a bigger pusher fan in there and there was no room for a puller which is why I decided to pull it out. After pulling out the condenser I had no problems fitting a 12" pusher fan I had laying around and was able to center it so it works very well.

I kept all the parts as it would still be nice to have AC and I'm hoping someone comes up with a solution for the space issue up front. An ultra thin puller fan might work but I wasn't able to find any thin enough. You might be able to make something work by doing some cutting up front but I wasn't willing to go that far and wasn't sure it would help anyway. I'd love to hear if Bill got something working!

Kevin

 

[jarrington]

Yep, I used "knee knocker" under dash units in both cars, leaving the original Alfa heater box. It was a bit intrusive in the Super as Kevin mentioned, but I found a bit smaller option for the Berlina that basically just takes the place of the shelf under the dash. This unit is a bit noisy at full blast but fits well on the passenger side of the dash, and it was easy enough to route the A/C and drain hoses.

A combined behind-the-dash unit as was mentioned will add more complexity to route heater hoses, figure out fitment and mounting locations, hook up heater controls, etc. There are also A/C only hidden units but fat chance getting one of those to fit with the stock heater box still in place.

 

[Anfanuts]

Some vintage cars (Lincoln's, etc.) and some later adaptations put the A/C guts in the trunk and direct it up the rear parcel shelf with lucite ducts that direct if forward. The cabin is not that big that with enough oomph - a biger fan - it will direct air up and forward. This option has been discussed locally. Also, 180out put a sizable Kenlow pusher fan up front.

Bill also installed A/C in the 65 Super he did for Jon H. I saw it and Hooligan at Lexington. Jon said his car, a 2L I recall, was prone to overheating with the A/C on and it did on the drive over from MD. Jason had a write up on his process.

I really toy with the idea as Central Texas (and southern US) temps in general are quite hot and can be humid and it's not much fun driving a non-A/C'd Alfa when it's 106 and 78% RH like today My 72 is a strong 2L with an Alfetta block/engine. Our driving season ironically is the mirror image of snow country cars.

There is a place that advertises in Sports and Exotics in Dallas, Vintage Air, that does conversions. I also understand there is a place in San Antonio. I might have to pay them a call with these ideas . . . when it cools off. Interested and subscribed.

 

[180OUT]

If it were me and I wanted an air conditioned Alfa sedan I'd use the Super as a cooler weather car and look for a 2 liter Berlina with factory air conditioning fitted and then do a modern hardware upgrade. With a Berlina you'd have a lot more room to work and, with a little planning, you could make a very nice hot-weather Alfa.

In any event with the hardware stock in front of the radiator, the stock Alfa cooling system is automatically compromise, especially in really hot climates. If you plan to do something like you'd be well advised to have the Alfa radiator re-cored for more capacity. It's all doable (although I don't think I'd do to a Super), although it'll just take some planning and work.

If you haven't driven one, Berlinas are very nice cars. Although not as nimble as a Super, they definitely have their own charm. I'd much rather drive one than a 2002, for instance. They're also easier to find than a Super and not nearly as expensive for comparable cars. And no my Super's not for sale and no I'm not going to buy a Berlina! :cowboy:

I installed a 12in pusher fan on my Super. It just fits if you use some spacers to angle the top of the radiator back a few degrees.

 

[Subtle]

In another thread someone with a GTV in Texas installed the cooler part in the trunk, with the cool air venting into the rear area.

Says it works at 100 F.

 

[gprocket]

Trunk mounted AC by Gigem75: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac/181775-trunk-unit-aircon.html

 

[mhemsley]

If you want a really retro look, there's always a Thermodor Swamp Cooler. Very low tech, but they apparently work. Here in south Mississippi, my Super sits nearly all summer - 6 months - so I'm considering a Swamp Cooler.

Ciao,

Mike

 

[180OUT]

Thermador Car Cooler for Your Vintage VW Volkswagen Lowrider | Vintage Air Cooled Volkswagen VW Beetle Lowrider Bug Pre 67 | Oldeskool.org

Charp! :flowers:

 

[gprocket]

That is seriously bizarre!

Key comment: "Obviously it doesn't work in high humidity or when you’re at a stoplight..."

 

[gprocket]

So getting back on track a bit with the AC in a Super question, I am hoping that I can move the radiator back toward the motor and then fit the condenser and fan behind the front valance. If not then it is a no go. Gigem75's trunk unit doesn't solve the condenser/fan fit issue up front.

I should have the motor installed in the super this week and be able to take measurements.

 

[Anfanuts]

I had a buddy (early-mid-60's) who's father towed their boat to Parker for 2 weeks every summer and they had one. I was right gun and responsible for puling the cord occasionally, and wiping the moisture from the right side of my head. Like a swamp cooler, it only works well in arid climates/on arid days.

 

[kredden]

So getting back on track a bit with the AC in a Super question, I am hoping that I can move the radiator back toward the motor and then fit the condenser and fan behind the front valance. If not then it is a no go. Gigem75's trunk unit doesn't solve the condenser/fan fit issue up front.

I should have the motor installed in the super this week and be able to take measurements.

That's what I was hoping to do but couldn't figure out a way to make it work.

Kevin

 

[jarrington]

Yes, I think you'd need an extra thin, multi-core custom radiator to really do the job, and then have fun figuring out which radiator hoses to use and where to route them. I also looked into a sidewinder puller fan:

Side Winder Electric Fan Kit - The Fan Man

but it was too spendy for an experiment.

As stated earlier, I can confirm that a 1750 Berlina (which I don't think ever had factory A/C) has enough room to fit both a pusher fan for the condenser and a puller for the radiator, and I haven't had any issues with overheating even on very hot days.

 

[Alfajay]

I also looked into a sidewinder puller fan

That is a clever design, though for $450 it should be clever!

I can confirm that a 1750 Berlina .... has enough room to fit both a pusher fan for the condenser and a puller for the radiator

Yes, but would it have room for the puller (e.g., fan between radiator and engine) with all the belts and idlers necessary to locate the A/C compressor above the alternator? The second belt, located ahead of the alternator & waterpump belt, consumes a lot of that volume. I can see fitting an electric puller fan - maybe even an inexpensive one instead of the model pictured above - if the compressor was mounted where the Spica pump used to go.

 

[jarrington]

That is a clever design, though for $450 it should be clever!

Yes, but would it have room for the puller (e.g., fan between radiator and engine) with all the belts and idlers necessary to locate the A/C compressor above the alternator? The second belt, located ahead of the alternator & waterpump belt, consumes a lot of that volume. I can see fitting an electric puller fan - maybe even an inexpensive one instead of the model pictured above - if the compressor was mounted were the Spica pump used to go.

I've never tried the above the alternator method, partially for that very reason. On a Weber car I wouldn't do it again without swapping the sump, front cover, and pulley for Bosch L-Jet parts. It makes the compressor installation a no-brainer.