Alfa Romeo Forums banner

21 - 40 of 62 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
685 Posts
Speed0

Okay, I like all the pic's. When your done messing around and realize that you can't get it back together let me know. I've got a good speedo from a '83 that works well and is accurate with a smooth needle when driving. I also have one from a 1980 that, interestingly enough is limited to 85 MPH and shows 192,000 miles. I have road tested several with my Garmin GPS and they are very accurate. I have an '84 bought 5 years ago and failed Maryland State inspection because of the wild speedo. Two things I did. Eliminate the two cable system drive, bu replacing it with a longer (from a much older model) single cable. Also bought a used speedometer from a fellow in California. Now it is as smooth as silk, no problems.
I also have a speedo all in parts too, if you want a part let me know.
Have a :)great day
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
685 Posts
Feelings at 85 vs. feelings at 140

Beyond moist feelings. I look at it this way. Using the 85 MPH speedometer, will give you a feeling of power and superiority, in that you would easily be able to "bury the needle" so to speak. On the other hand, the 140 MPH speedometer will make your friends jealous when they just look at it. the driver, however will most likely feel feelings of inadequicy because they will never get close to the end.
My first Alfa, going back 40 years ago was a 1959 Guiletta Veloce with the 40DCOE Webers and an Abarth exhaust system. It was configured for European standards and the Speedometer was in KPH. Top Speed 220. My friend thought I acually had a Ferrari at first, since they saw the little F on the side.

Anyway, fond memories
 

·
1966-2013
Joined
·
13,741 Posts
Using the 85 MPH speedometer, will give you a feeling of power and superiority, in that you would easily be able to "bury the needle" so to speak.
LOL, I'd do that every time I shifted into 4th when playing the 'let's get on it' game if I had an 85mph gauge.

Still, I understand exactly what you're saying. With a 120mph gauge 60 is near 9 o'clock and 100 near 12 o'clock, which visually is 'comfortable' to look at. No inadiquate feelings about it as they are seemingly 'right' I guess. Something to do with the mind liking the 90 degrees aspect of things for informational transfer, vs the 'not quite right' that a 140 gauge would produce at the same speeds. Where as 70 and 110 would fit right in on the 140.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Ray,
If I can't find something that bonds the needle pieces back together, I may need to buy a needle from your parts speedo. I've tried the Gorilla Glue version of super glue and it never even got tacky, and I've tried emblem adhesive and it stuck the pieces together but isn't 'hard" enough. The needle pointer tends to both droop with gravity and deflect when it hits the needle stop pin. I finally broke down and bought some two-part epoxy and will try that next.

It is interesting to me that the needle stop pin appears to be in different spots for the two speedos you show. The 85mph-max needle sits at 4mph and the 140mph-max needle sits around 9mph. It is also a bit odd that the 140mph-max dial only has four divisions between each marked speed, so you would have like a large hash mark at 10mph, then a small hash-mark at 2.5mph, a medium one at 5mph, another small one at 7.5mph and then back to a large one and a label at 20mph. I guess since all the speed limit signs are multiples of 5mph it doesn't matter much. The small hash marks are just "filler".

Responding to slyalfa, it may well have been the spring slipped. I'm not quite sure how it is mounted and have been reluctant to pry the little press fit clip off the shaft to be able to get the cup off and be able to see the spring. You suggested that other meters have stops situated somewhere around the circumference of the spring and the outer leg of the spring can be moved from one stop to another, and that may well be the arrangement. I think taking the needle off would have been the easier fix as it wasn't that hard to get it off the shaft, but my having broken the needle has slowed the repair process. The needle broke because I wasn't careful enough in handling the assembly while taking the pictures. With the glass face and bezel off, there isn't anything to protect the needle and something I did in holding or moving the parts bent the plastic needle past the point its 25-year old plastic could take. It snapped off right at the point it attaches to the main hub piece.

John, still not quite ready for the hammer fix yet.
 

·
1966-2013
Joined
·
13,741 Posts
It is interesting to me that the needle stop pin appears to be in different spots for the two speedos you show
But they don't. While the mph # may be different, the angle is the same.
Loosely put, that means the guts are pretty much the same and orientated the same, with the only real difference being the higher ranged speedo has a tighter spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Beyond moist feelings. I look at it this way. Using the 85 MPH speedometer, will give you a feeling of power and superiority, in that you would easily be able to "bury the needle" so to speak...
...My friend thought I acually had a Ferrari at first, since they saw the little F on the side.
Thanks for this perspective Ray,

I too was starting to get speedo envy... no, wait a second, that's just wrong. :D

My neighbor brought his "car guy" friend over to see my "Ferrari" since i was waxing it in the driveway, neither of us had the heart...

84' MY manufactured 10/83, Jaeger 85 mph speedo
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Ray,


Responding to slyalfa, it may well have been the spring slipped. I'm not quite sure how it is mounted and have been reluctant to pry the little press fit clip off the shaft to be able to get the cup off and be able to see the spring. You suggested that other meters have stops situated somewhere around the circumference of the spring and the outer leg of the spring can be moved from one stop to another, and that may well be the arrangement.

John, still not quite ready for the hammer fix yet.
I've only briefly read through this, but it seems to have some good info, not sure if it helps when working with the later speedo's...

http://pcbunn.cithep.caltech.edu/jjb/TR6/speedo.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
I haven't put it back together yet. The urgency was off due to my having had an alternate ride to work. My mother-in-law broke her wrist (chorus: "That's bad!") and she insisted that I drive her Maxima, whose most desireable feature is a working AC (chorus: "That's good!"). The 2-part epoxy did the trick in knitting the speedometer needle firmly back onto its hub.

I've also spent the time reading the speedo link that 84FLVeloce provided and comparing those Jaegers to mine. None of those three are exactly the same as mine, but the newest (plastic body) is the closest. I had planned to try my hand at making a diagram of the inner-workings of my speedo, but that guy did a much better job than I could have. He did say that "bumping" the needle stop too hard with the needle would cause the needle to shift, and I think that that's what I and/or the previous owners must have done. Unfortunately I don't see the two white dots that he mentions are used to re-zero the needle when you pull it off, and there is no easy way to remove my needle stop as it seems to be peened into place from the back.

I did make one new discovery: I found what looks like a watch stem in close proximity to the speedo's spring. I want to jump to the conclusion that twisting this stem one way or another will either wind/unwind (increase/decrease) the spring's tension on the needle's shaft, but without trying it I don't know. I took some pictures, but it is so well hidden that it's hard to do without a macro lens. I haven't downloaded the pictures to my laptop so I'm not sure how well focused they are. I considered taking the speedo's face off (the black part with the numerals) so that I could get a better picture, but it looked too much like I'd damage it (the face) in the process. The face has two pins that fasten it to the main (plastic) body but I don't know how the pins are shaped. For the pin at the 3 o'clock position I can see the tip of its other end sticking out of the plastic body. I tried pressing on that tip with the flat of a screw driver and it wouldn't budge. The other pin (the one at the 9 o'clock position) is buried entirely in the plastic body.

Looking at the face of the speedo, if you mentally draw a line down from the 10,000 digit in the odometer to intersect with a line running from the center of the shaft to it's 9 o'clock point, behind that intersection is the watch stem. If you could somehow drill a hole at that intersection without going so far as to damage the stem (it's only about 1/8" behind the face), you would see the top of the stem looking at you through the hole. There is a small gap between the face of the speedo and the center portion of the white plastic body and putting your good eye on that gap you can see the small watch-type spring and the little watch stem, both are gold- or brass-colored.

Sorry for having "way too many words and way too few pictures", but I'll try to get the pictures uploaded this evening.

-Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
Okay, I've spent a good portion of the evening messing with trying to get text and graphics onto the pictures, and then resizing them so that I can upload them to the bulletin board. I imagine it would get easier with practice, but the frustration level is almost up there with changing out my water pump.

First photo should hopefully show the speedo face, indicating the approximate location of where the winding stem (if that is what it is) is hidden behind the face, and showing the spring and needle stop.

Second photo is where a macro lens would have come in handy. The picture's depth of field is about nil but what there is of it is certainly not where I wanted it to be. The fuzzy picture (cropped so that knocking the size of the file down wouldn't make it any worse) shows -from behind the speedo face - the watch spring and the winding stem.

Enjoy, sports fans. Oh, and the shiny stuff on the speedo face in the first photo is Super Glue, which true to form stuck to everything but what I intended it to. Any thoughts on how to remove it without making things worse?
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
685 Posts
Three Things

First. I love your determination and persistence. You are the kind of person I want on my team, work, play whatever.
Second. The "handle" OLEO Spot, I'm thinking back to when I was a kid and butter was still rationed or at least not easily afforded by by parents. We used to get the Olio and the package contained a little "blister" of red dye so that when it was mixed with the Olio it would turn from white to yellow and look like "real butter"
Third, when you get done messing with your Speedo, it it does not work I have two in my shop that do, Meanwhile if you let me have your mailing address I will send you a speedo that I have which is all apart. Maybe you could use one or more of these parts to assist you in this project.
Thanks
Ray Kiszely
Brown Summit, NC
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
685 Posts
Three Things

First. I love your determination and persistence. You are the kind of person I want on my team, work, play whatever.
Second. The "handle" OLEO Spot, I'm thinking back to when I was a kid and butter was still rationed or at least not easily afforded by by parents. We used to get the Olio and the package contained a little "blister" of red dye so that when it was mixed with the Olio it would turn from white to yellow and look like "real butter"
Third, when you get done messing with your Speedo, it it does not work I have two in my shop that do, Meanwhile if you let me have your mailing address I will send you a speedo that I have which is all apart. Maybe you could use one or more of these parts to assist you in this project.
Thanks
Ray Kiszely
Brown Summit, NC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Thanks Ray,
I've got a flat spot on my forehead from beating it against the wall so many times, but I usually manage to finish my projects. I'm actually a field engineer turned project engineer turned manufacturing manager and have spent my adult life in various parts of the oilfield in various parts of the world, so beating my head against problems has sorta been a lifestyle. I also tend to grumble when I become the victim of bad engineering (whether I know what I'm talking about or not), but I absolutely delight in finding something that has artfully brought design and engineering beautifully together. If that's still what you want on your team, then game on!

I'm afraid the olio experience is just a little ahead of my time, but I've heard those stories from my parents who told of having to knead the oil and olio (and I guess dye) together until their little arms ached. My wife has started getting the kids' peanut butter in a jar where the oil is all sitting on top. The peanut butter itself has something of the consistency of wood filler until you eventually get the oil stirred in, and that makes MY arm ache! "OLEO spot" was my attempt at being witty, as my half of the garage floor has various colors of oil spots (under the engine and under the differential), while my wife's half is always spotless. With me flying without a parachute in my Alfa, her vehicle pretty much as to be new and dependable.

I'll gladly take the one that you have that's in pieces. I'm fairly confident that mine will go back together just fine, and that once I get the needle stuck back on in the right position that it will read - well, as close as a mechanical speedometer can read. But I would like to dig deeper into the mechanism and have been loathe to do it with mine, afraid that I would booger something up beyond all redemption and have a permanent collection of parts to show for it. I'll PM my mailing address to you shortly.
 

·
1966-2013
Joined
·
13,741 Posts
Cool you've persued it this far. Hope it does indeed work out and work for you when all said and done.

Hmm, while on that note, as long as you're knee deep in there anyway, why not try to match the odometer to the mileage of the car it's going in when said and done?

Kind of a means of keeping track of original miles instead of 'I changed the gauge at X point but if you add/subtract X, you'll get the correct #'

Granted the number face will likely need to be removed to accomplish it, but if I'm reading things right, you're kinda headed that way anyway, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Darren,
This is the original speedo with the orignal mileage indicated. I wrote down the mileage before I started tinkering, just in case things went south on me, but so far I haven't inadvertantly rolled any numbers. The trip meter, however, did get all whompy-jawed when I had to work the reset cable out of the dash. I've kept an Excel spreadsheet of gas purchases/repairs/mileage/trip miles that I'll have to back-figure next time I buy gas, but then everything will be good again.

The two bolts that hold the speedo case on both have a side-to-side hole through them, as if there was supposed to be a seal (like on your house electric or gas meter) through them to see if the speedo had been tampered with. Mine had no seal, and perhaps never had a seal. It does make me wonder if someone had been in there before me. I would think that Alfas, and I guess especially spiders, would tend to have lower mileage compared to other cars their age. When I bought my '85 nearly eleven years ago, it had about 73K miles showing, so roughly 4.8K miles driven per year up to that time. It has been my daily driver ever since and now reads about 108.5K, so I've put just a tad over 3K miles per year on it (I live just a few miles from work). If it weren't for CarFax I would bet that any potential buyer that wasn't acquainted with Alfas might suspect the odometer had been tampered with at some time.

-Mark
 

·
1966-2013
Joined
·
13,741 Posts
Never been in one to know about the tamper seal you mention, but on mine, the speedo cable to speedo head had a factory seal on it, presumably to let whomever know that the head had not been swapped, or removed to use the powerdrill technique of adjusting mileage.

Of course I had to wreck the seal to change the dead speedo cable that was making the needle flutter like a moth in a spotlight. (actually I ditched both upper and lower cables and went with an S2 single piece job. Cheaper than either half of the 2 cable setup, and works WAY better than the 2 cable setup could ever do. Needle moves like it's on glass now)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
Was the seal through the two posts that the arrows are pointing to? I saw those during my last extended sojourn under the hood (dreaded water pump replacement) and wondered if they had ever had a seal through them. Oh, the joys of a third-owner car!

It's probably common knowledge, but after nearly 11 years of having the "check engine" light glaring at me I finally figured out that the reset button for it was underneath the larger (silver-colored) post. I had asked an Alfa mechanic about how to reset the counter for the light and he just unplugged the connector. Being somewhat (but not nearly as much so as my wife) Monk-ish (for those familiar with the show) I plugged it back in and just lived with it. It just doesn't do to have unmated connectors dangling about.;)
 

Attachments

21 - 40 of 62 Posts
Top