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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Pulling 164 heads without rolling engine or lowering sub frame

Tired of seeing it sit in driveway, so pulled heads from 164L that came to us with 6 bent intake valves. Not sure why he bought it off ebay but he did about 3 years ago and it has been in my driveway for about 2 years.

Main point of post is advise you all that yes you can pull heads without lowering sub frame or rolling engine. I did my drop the tranny on the subframe trick by disconnecting tranny mount from tranny to give me more room to get timing belt covers and cam and aux pulleys off. Then after I had rear intake and valve cover off I pulled false fire wall to give me major room to remove bolts to rear exhaust manifold. Then removed right headlight and alternator and mounting bracket.

With rear cam pulley, aux shaft pulley and oil pump shaft gear attaching nut inside rear head removed and exhaust manifolds loose from heads I just lifted both heads off without moving engine after I cut two short hoses going from mid thermostat housing to heads.

Did tou see my primitive pete pictures of shade tree mechanicing done to thermostat housing?
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Think my son can save any of those corroded pieces? I am having him blast them up so we can inspect what can maybe salvaged. Never, never throw away Alfa parts until you are sure they are completely wasted. My unknowing car club buddies have thrown away a couple parts that were good such as RPM/Timing Sensor after I gave them good one to replace a good one. Turns out guy's ignition switch harness connectors were corroded. I am still po'd about that as now I am short one for this car.
 

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There's no rest for the righteous........
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well, some progress being made.

Got heads back from my head shop in just 2 days - all 12 valves were bent. They did a valve job, replaced all valves, stem seals and lightly milled heads as all valve guides were good. All intake tappets were damaged so have to replace them when I set up cam/valve clearances. Had one broken exhaust push rod and damaged exhaust tappet. Some jack leg really didn't have a clue on timing cams it seems

Timing belt tensioner outer spring broken and lower stud had nut spinning between threaded areas. Luckily I have just enough stud left with good threads to take a thin spring locking washer and nut as I can't get stud out of block. Broke long end above unthreaded area off trying with triple nut arrangement.

Replaced a/c blower motor and repaired damaged wiring from previous heater core change ripping through wiring harness with misaligned hose hose clamps.

Replaced noisy a/c compressor pulley bearing and ruptured front motor mount.
Compressor has been changed before and it still has some R12 Freon in system. Easy to replace motor mount and compressor bearing with heads off as engine jacks up real easy.

Repaired damaged wiring harness wiring for RPM/timing sensor and coolant temp sensor more things probably damaged by not lowering tranny on subframe and trying to rip out timing belt cover and tearing through wire harnesses. More Jack Leg shade tree things I had to fix.

Primitive Pete Caveman shade tree mechanicks has been at work on this 164 everywhere I turn.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Its Runs And Drives Around The Block!

ITS RUNS AND DRIVES AROUND THE BLOCK! After a week of toil my son and I got it started yesterday about 4 p.m. But not before we almost quit for the day when it wouldn't start after all our final assembly efforts which included dropping tanks from two cars and installing tank and pump I had already tested and installed in non-quik silver months ago.

Anyway we decided tank change using already tested item unit worth the work after we saw inside of old tank (now project for another day).

We also changed in line fuel filter under body and blew out lines as I had installed newly cleaned fuel injectors and then tested fuel pressure with gage and jumping fuel relay socket.

Everything was looking good when we went to start it but no spark. After a bit of checking we finally found a dead coil wire but once replaced car still wouldn't start even though RPM/Timing Sensor Ohm reading good at 600 ohms and coil readings seemed OK.

Just for grins we changed coil with another one that had same ohm (resistance) reading and it started right up. Go Figure?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Nice job Steve, glad you got her running again, job well done mate!
So many cars, so little time.

Thanks guys we needed that! My son is getting anxious about maybe putting car on the road for his wife so he transferred plates and insurance from his currently non running Range Rover (electronically controlled transfer case recently went into neutral mode).

We have another father son get together to ready it for state inspection Thursday (my birthday). I am getting closer to the age of dirt with each passing year.

It is nice to bond with son once in awhile. He was able to do that with my grandson last Saturday afternoon as he got a half day off from overtime work.

They were able to get my 12 yo grandson's riding lawnmower up and running so wrench turning is running down hill like from father to son to grandson.
 

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Sweet. :D I guess you will have to rename that one now? ;)
Charles
 

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We have another father son get together to ready it for state inspection Thursday (my birthday). I am getting closer to the age of dirt with each passing year.
I haven't heard of the 'age of dirt' before. Dust to dust...
I remember my father being told that when he retired, every day would be a Sunday. I don't think that was ever quite the case... meanwhile how's your house-renovation coming along?

It is nice to bond with son once in awhile. He was able to do that with my grandson last Saturday afternoon as he got a half day off from overtime work.

They were able to get my 12 yo grandson's riding lawnmower up and running so wrench turning is running down hill like from father to son to grandson.
That's touching to hear - skills passed from one generation to the next just like in the successful days of yore. I guess I was lucky to have the same. I had many friends (the 'computer enthusiast' generation) who had nothing in common with their fathers at all and shared no time together, and now their families are split between countries.

One question - you mentioned that the inside of the tank was in a sorry state. Isn't it a plastic tank? - mine is. I thought that a plastic fuel tank would last indefinitely.

Cheers and congrats,
-Alex
 

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U.S. 164 tanks are steel instead of plastic for some reason.
Charles
 

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Probably outdated "behind the times" DOT rules, or, forgive me for saying this, the DOT might know more than the Euros. Nah!!!

Seriously, I don't know which would hold up in a fierce rear ender, the bendable/dentable steel or the crack prone plastic. Of course, there is the problem of the steel tank rusting due to water condensate sitting in the bottom (reason to put in water absorber once in a while?). Now if the tank were made from advanced composite with fibers, it wouldn't crack until a much higher load. Can anyone say Boeing 787?

Not quite on subject.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I haven't heard of the 'age of dirt' before. Dust to dust...
I remember my father being told that when he retired, every day would be a Sunday. I don't think that was ever quite the case... meanwhile how's your house-renovation coming along?
-Alex
How should I say it - SLOW! However, my wife and I bonded in house on Monday and together worked out a pattern to lay the tile for back splash in kitchen but didn't actaully stick any tile to the wall.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Probably outdated "behind the times" DOT rules, or, forgive me for saying this, the DOT might know more than the Euros. Nah!!!

Seriously, I don't know which would hold up in a fierce rear ender, the bendable/dentable steel or the crack prone plastic. Of course, there is the problem of the steel tank rusting due to water condensate sitting in the bottom (reason to put in water absorber once in a while?). Now if the tank were made from advanced composite with fibers, it wouldn't crack until a much higher load. Can anyone say Boeing 787?

Not quite on subject.
Not to sure I could afford a Boeing 787 carbon fiber composite fuel cell for my 164.

As for Old Verde 91L 164 project time will tell whether we have a keeper or not.

Here are a couple pictures of it as we progress along working off little things to make a date with state inspector.

Blue 164 with "Q4" wheels in background is my friend Lee's he had just dropped in for visit from NJ and we reset his air bag light with my Alfa tester. Or should I say he did because I couldn't coordinate the 3 seconds on and 3 seconds off correctly after have a cool brew or two with lunch.

His car is sitting high because we just had jacked it up to check front end for worn or loose suspension parts. It sits same as My son's Green one.

Before lunch I reset my other friend Joe's air bag light first time I flipped switch.

NOTE: THE 0170 OIL FILL CAP!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, today some more progress made. We pulled both seats installed seat motor start up boxes and got all three postions of all seats to work. Also had to JB weld in front anchor nuts for driver's seat at inboard as side had no bolt installed and outboard side had a loose non allen head bolt (12mm hex head bolt) installed with no anchor nut and sheet metal ripped out. Did I mention JACK LEG MECHANICS BEFORE?

Had to install missing relay for rear window operating system to get windows to work and replace blown 7.5A fuse in 20A socket to get seats to work.

Now I have to go back and replace 5K0273 alternator belt that was on car when we got it because all aftermarket catalogs call for it to replace Alfa part number belt for alternator belt but it is to large and it slips. BACK to the hidden bolt under alternator. I knew better but why did I leave it on?
 

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Inducted Son's Ebay Find.... / Old Quotes

I haven't heard of the 'age of dirt' before. Dust to dust...

I remember my father being told that when he retired, every day would be a Sunday. I don't think that was ever quite the case... meanwhile how's your house-renovation coming along?

That's touching to hear - skills passed from one generation to the next just like in the successful days of yore. I guess I was lucky to have the same. I had many friends (the 'computer enthusiast' generation) who had nothing in common with their fathers at all and shared no time together, and now their families are split between countries.

Cheers and congrats,
-Alex
Steve and I must have been raised by the same depression era grandparents or their relatives because I have heard the "Older than dirt" expression as well as a few others; among them: "Until the cows come home" and "Old as the hills but twice as dusty". I'm sure, if I really thought on it, I could come up with a few more.

Oh, how the phrase: "Too many cars, too little time" rings so true.....as well as the handing down of skills.

Pat learned rudimentary automotive skills from his father, who worked in the Flint, Michigan, Chevrolet plant all of his life. Basically, Pat's dad knew how to use a screw driver and hammer to make the crudest of automotive repairs and was determined that Pat, his only child, would not spend his life in a factory on an assembly line. Pat did not venture far, he stayed near and within the automotive community, but in a very different capacity; he had the ability to do the mechanics as well as document them and turned it into a living while loving it, specifically, with Alfas.

While Pat's father did not live to see his son's accomplishments, he would have been so proud of him and what he accomplished over his life. For Pat it was kind of the reverse, he had so much to offer his/our son, and began teaching him at an early age about cars and how they came apart and went back together. Sadly and unfortunately, that was not meant to be and was stolen from both of them....by something that none of us had any control over. Those memories are some of the happiest times we shared together as a family, even though they were not ultimately fulfilled.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
My dad gave me a wrench or two when I was about 8 and I drove him across country from WI to CA when I was 12 in a new Nash Rambler we delivered from factory in Kenosha to dealer in LA.

Another family, he almost crushed me on a Farmall model B tractor when I pulled him on a Model H which was a lemon from the day we got it. He popped clutch to try and start it and it made the B I was driving lift front wheels and sacred me pretty bad. Dad was quick enough with reflexes to dump clutch on H to set me back down. At about age 9-10 that was something to remember now that I am the age my dad was when he passed away.

We started my son at 14 with a Fiat X1/9 and now he and I still PLAY WITH CARS more than we should. My grandson is 12 and has been riding lawn tractor for a couple years so I guess it keeps passing down but at a slower pace that when I was just a farm boy in the 40's.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Recapping the project:
So far we have replaced 12 valves out of twelve, 6 intake tappets, one exhaust tappet/push rod, engine top end gaskets, water pump, thermostat housings/thermostat, some hoses, TB tensioner, timing belt, a/c pulley bearing, both headlights (no reflector surfaces left), serpentine idler pulley with Ford (many models) pulley, cap and rotor, coil wire, coil, gas tank/fuel pump/fuel filter, a/c blower motor and a/c control panel, numerous blown fuses and misssing relays. Installed seat motor start up boxes, repaired wiring, had leaks welded up in exhaust system from improper installation of flex joints and mid muffler.

Nice driving car, auto tranny works fine but engine lower end maybe doomed to low oil pressure and bearing/rod noise. We may have to swap out engine or part out car before this project over with but we tried to save another one.
 

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Ouch! :( Sorry to hear that the bottom-end doesn't sound healthy. That's a show stopper and after all that work, too. I just started a project 240 Volvo project to have a backup car for my 164 and hope I bought a good one. I will see, as soon as I get some missing items in and installed. Fortunately, parts are super cheap and plentiful for a "Brick." ;)
Charles
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well, sailed it through state inspection today and drove it around town a bit. Once heated up oil pressure drops off and red light comes on at idle but still drives nice but not enough Freon left to cool driver and ABS light comes on once you get going about 25.

Guess my son will take it to his house later this week and start messing with some body/bumper issues. Maybe engine change in the future.

I have Rosso rackless right now. Rack semi disassembled on work bench to fix worn out fixed rubber mount but leaking so will have to rebuild it, too. Always something to do with these rescue projects.
 
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