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Dear friends,

Now that my new garage is finished, I'm looking for a decent and effective indoor storage system like the ones from http://www.airflow-uk.com/index.htm or http://www.carcoon.co.uk/products.htm ... I don't really know the difference between the two?! (apart the fact that you can drive your car in and out) Is it only a protection against dust or does it even "protect" against rust? Who uses such a thingy? Would you recommend it? Is there another manufacturer?

Kind regards

Yves ;)
 

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I have a carcoon (or should I say had... dam cross cattle/rotweiler puppy decided he liked the puffy thing in the garage and attacked it.... must have spent his whole day there chewing it to pieces).
Mine wasn't for indoors but was for outdoors and undercover.
It worked really well for stopping any condensation build up in the engine and keeping the car free of moisture (no more foggy dials or condesation spits from the exhaust upon start up).... so as a rust protector I'd have to say it'd probably be a very good investment.

As far as dust, my car would get a small amount on it whilst in the carcoon..... but not much....
It made it so I had to wash the car very few times as the dust that did build up came off with a dust removal cloth and wouldn't stick to the car like when it was in the carport (if your car was a weekender you may very well only have to wash it a few times each year).

Good luck
 

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Try these: http://www.permabag.com/

I must say that I haven't tried their Permabag product, but I have one of their Auto Storm covers and would blindly trust them again, it is that amazing. Shipping went fast and smoothly as well and living in Denmark, I'll say that it should be for you as well.
 

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Both of my Alfas are in storage in a Permabag. One of them I have since 5 years ago and the car comes out everytime as it went in (no dust:no rust).

The only disadvantage of the Permabag compared with a Carcoon is that it is not practical if you intend to use the car regularly since it basically consists of a bag in which the car is hermetically closed. You will also have to recharge the silica gel canisters once in a while (abt. once every three months roughly). There is a hygrometer in the bag which indicates when recharging is necessary.

I do not have any experience with Carcoon but I do hear that it works fine. However I still think that the amount of humidity in the air being blown through will affect the situation. The Permabag works with a different principle, the air inside the bag is dry whatever the outside conditions are (as long as the silica gel is in order, of course). Additionally, it does not require any power supply making it ideal for storing in spaces where power supply is not easily available. And next to that, if the car is not stored somewhere you visit regularly and the power fails, then you've had it.

Permabags are not cheap but certainly not more expensive than Carcoons. They have also been voted, if I'm not mistaken, by Practical Classics as best buy.

Joseph
 

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The Airchamber looks good as it appears to be self supporting, so you can drive straight in. Has anyone had any experience with this one?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Gentlemen; thanks very much for your comments!

@Oelholm: I was sure that I forgot something :)

However I still think that the amount of humidity in the air being blown through will affect the situation. Joseph
That's exactly what I thought!! Maybe someone who owns an Airchamber can clarify this point, the Airchamber seems to be more practical, I think it would better suit my needs...

I saw that Alfaholics have a storage system like the Airchamber, maybe Max can tell us why they use this system (+ humidy effect?)

cheers Yves
 

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This info is from the Airchamber Website.
Water can exist in three distinct phases, as ice, liquid and a colourless gas known as water vapour. Rust corrosion and mildew can only form when physical moisture (i.e. water in its liquid phase) is in contact with metal, fabric or leather. The water vapour that is always present in air can't react with metal to start corrosion, nor does it cause mildew spores to develop. Water vapour is in fact a good thing, prolonged storage in air with a Relative Humidity of less than 60% causes leather and wood to dry out and even rubber seals can harden and crack. So we aim to keep water vapour in the air and just eliminate physical moisture. Unless you have just washed your car, or driven in wet conditions you will only find moisture on or in your vehicle as the result of condensation and that's caused by the temperature of the air around it dropping quickly, usually because the structure of the car is cold-soaked (for instance from low overnight temperatures or driving on a cold day). Because the air in the Airchamber is constantly flowing through it, it doesn't't have time to be cooled and so there's no condensation.

Out of interest the one to fit a GTV costs 381pounds and the freight is 262 pounds to Australia, geesh. They are putting out tenders to other shipping companies for a better price.
 

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The airchamber definetely looks to be the most convenient once erected for getting your car in and out.... the carcoon was by no means a difficult task though (simply unzip one side and fold back)
They're all a pretty simplistic concept when you look at them.... i.e. either a self inflated airflow tent or an erected airflow tent).
If one was a reasonable sewer.... or had a understanding wife who might want to tackle the task on their behalf, I think you could probably make one of these after a trip to your local camping store....
 

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Thanks Bil for the explanation. However I am still sceptic of the theory concerning the absence of rust forming. I think that if you would park the car in a windy but humid environment at a constant temperature, rust forming can still start as you have completed the circuit for electrolytic corrosion. Correct?
 

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Joseph,

Let me jump in.... The important thing in what you said is "constant temperature". In that situation there would be no condensation and no water so no rust.

But, in the real world where temperature changes day and night you get a mist on the car in the morning when the air heats faster than the car so water and so rust.

In reality it's the bridge between dry and wet that causes most rust and if you look at steel pylons in the water they will rust between high and low tide mark and not much below that. It is an oxidation process and needs the oxygen. So water droplets that can easily transfer oxygen are the best way to get rust. Salty water is even better because the salt will easily move the chemicals in the water.
 

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I dont have experience or formal qualifications to comment with any authority on these products. The comments by Joseph and Andrew are valid concerns and observation. It would be helpful to hear from someone who has used the Airchamber or Carcoon to get some feedback.
I have taken the following info from the Airchamber website (again), It addresses the moisure/condensation issues and explains at least the theory behind why the products might work.
"The Airchamber works by circulating up to 50,000 litres of clean air per hour throughout the storage cell whilst electrostatic filters trap even the smallest airborne particles. In these conditions a rain soaked car is dried quickly - the breeze created by the air flow causing rapid evaporation just like on a washing line (it's like hanging your car out to dry). Evaporated moisture within the Airchamber is then allowed to escape with the airflow, exiting through the vents and closed zips. Replenished by fresh, filtered air from the fans, the environment will always remain fresh, as well as condensation-free (because rapid changes in temperature are prevented). With a virtually moisture-free atmosphere, rust and mould simply cannot develop; the reason we don't say totally moisture-free is because even 'dry' air contains a certain, natural amount of (desired) water vapour. This helps prevent materials like wood, leather and rubber from losing their natural qualities."

I assume condensation occurs when the air temp rises relative to the temp of the car body. This is likely because the metal mass of the body is unable to warm at the same rate as the air around it and would explain why condensation is worse as the sun begins to rise. I also assume that time is a factor in condensation forming. By circulating 50,000 litre per hour over the car body perhaps there isnt enough time for condensation to form? I hope this make some sense, ive been awake with kids all night.

BTW I received a shipping quote of 222GBP from Airchamber, so the total cost to my door in Australia is over $1,500. I was also advised not to use air freight as they had 35 Airchambers crack in the extremely low temps of the cargo hold.
 

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Hi Bill,

A bell just rang loud in my head. Before I forked out the cash I'd be asking why a cold environment will reliably crack their product when thousands (or millions) of all sorts of products (including whole cars) fly in cargo holds every day.

Why is their product so weak and why will the weakness not show itself in 5 years of frosty mornings?

(I agree with your explanations.)

Presonally I'd also be asking the electrical load of the unit because electrostatic filters use a fair bit. If they tell you the kW rating, then multiply by 8,760 (hours in a year) to get the kWh used in a year, then multiply by what you pay for electricity - an average of about 25c/kWh is reasonable for domestic in Australia. For example a 200Watt unit will cost a bit under $500 a year to run. (Sorry if you already knew this.)
 

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Hi Bill,

A bell just rang loud in my head. Before I forked out the cash I'd be asking why a cold environment will reliably crack their product when thousands (or millions) of all sorts of products (including whole cars) fly in cargo holds every day.

Why is their product so weak and why will the weakness not show itself in 5 years of frosty mornings?

(I agree with your explanations.)

Presonally I'd also be asking the electrical load of the unit because electrostatic filters use a fair bit. If they tell you the kW rating, then multiply by 8,760 (hours in a year) to get the kWh used in a year, then multiply by what you pay for electricity - an average of about 25c/kWh is reasonable for domestic in Australia. For example a 200Watt unit will cost a bit under $500 a year to run. (Sorry if you already knew this.)
thanks for the thoughts Andrew, I found this section on running cost on the Airchamber website.
Q.) How much does Airchamber cost to run?

A.) With its brushless 12 volt fans operating continuously the average electricity cost is less than £30 per year. The Airchamber is supplied with an efficient 240V (120V in Canada and USA) transformer which only needs a standard domestic power socket to plug into.
The price is appproximately A$75.00 a year running full time but no info on kW rating.
Im waiting for a reply re the plastic cracking..good question though. They said the air freight company covered the loss so I assumed it was because they stored the airchambers in a non pressurised hold with temperatures well below freezing. I think -30C is a common outside air temp on international flights from memory.

I notice Airchamber make reference to suppliers in europe and the US but give no further details. The freight costs are almost as much as the airchamber from the UK. Maybe someone has heard of a supplier in the US where the freight might be less expensive? Ill do a search later to see what turns up.
 
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