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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There has to be a better way... :confused: :eek: :) I wouldn't do the front - just the rear.

I am told that the universal connection is of some unique design and that the entire setup is VERY light!

From what I've read the shifter is THE BEST ever...
 

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well i dont recognize it so it must not be american parts and it must be something imported newer than 95

so what is it already?
 

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silvia? skyline? ....im pretty much betting on nissan...too bad you dont have some of the surrounding stucture to make things easyer
 

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Deffinately not Nissan, I have to agree with giuliettaevo
 

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Discussion Starter #8
S2000...

If I do go this route, it will only be next year and I'll keep the Milano/75 front-end and then use the S2000 forward-mounted gearbox and bell-housing (with an adapter-plate to the 3.7 24 valve Alfa engine) and then the Honda drive-line and entire rear platform.

This means that I will be converting the front hubs to whatever the S2000 runs (to now match the S2000 rear running-gear.) Apparently it is real simple, real light, real cheap, real strong and I KNOW that it shifts amazingly!

A buddy here is converting ALL of the S2000 running gear (including the motor) in to his Corolla Ec20-whatever (last RWD model...) Bloody things are light too!

We'll see.
 

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Seriously, the amount of work you are looking at there you may as well construct a tube framed 75 shell and go champ car underneath it.
Mid engined, race car suspension, super uber light race car.
At least then it would be worth the effort, this is just too much for just a S2000 rear end and shifter.
 

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JJ,
If you really do this (which I personally think is a bit wacky) with a 3.7, I would try find a setup that is proven with that kind of HP and torque. Anyway, I'm not sure what you want to achieve. I hate to say this, but why not just get an s2000, or E46 BMW M3 (should be cheap soon), or ... :eek: I would be concerned about the weight balance - I just had my street Milano on corner scales, and the Milano is already nose heavy - 54.5%.
Jes
 

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i dont see why so many ppl hop up and down about swaps ?!?!?!?...heaven forbid someone hack up an alfa in the sake of makeing it BETTER!!!

personaly i LOVE the idea..the work itself isnt going to be horable..its all about pulling out the plasmacutter and sawzall and makeing sure everything stays square

my ONLY issue is...whats the s2k breaking point (in other words how much HP/TQ will it take befor it goes boom)

great thinking and keep thinking outside of the box!
 

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I still like the idea of the fwd alfa setup from a newer alfa, welded in the back as rear engine rwd...
 

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How about full Skyline GTR 4 whell drive transmission :p I've seenit done (on another forum) in an early RWD Toyota Celica, complete with twin turbo Toyota V8..... Where does it all end :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Well, exactly! That's why I'm not out there "puttin' a beeeck-blauk inna Nover"...

Putting a Chevy in a Ford or vice-a-versa, or slappin' an S2000 in a To-yo-ter is just not for me - and I have tried to keep the thing as much an Alfa as possible! (Sure - the forgies are from Ross and the c'molly rods are from Pauter etc etc), but for the most part I didn't take the "no substitute for cubic inches" approach with this thing - throwing any and all degree of class - not to mention some reverence for the marqué - to the wind...

It still has an Alfa engine, Alfa gearbox, the original suspension mounting-points and engine-mounts - even the Alfa dash and wind-shield. It is all loosely based on mods that Alfa themselves did (design of the body-kit etc etc...) That being said, there remains one aspect that TRULY can not be modified enough to make it worth a **** and that is the gearbox and shift-linkage!

It is the one area that even with 5-6-7K EURO :eek: Collotti innards, still delivers sub-par performance in shifting and reliability and longevity of the case, the clutch-housing etc! Not to mention the stupid GUIBO setup...

I dunno - this is where I'm very torn! Going with a front-mounted setup (like Dawie has done numerous times with a 6-speed Getrag gearbox up front and an Alfa SEI (Six) sedan dif. at the rear), is enough of a departure from the original design to begin with - leave alone throwing a Japanese setup in there...!

However, I so would love to complete this thing with a drive-line setup worthy of the rest of it!
 

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different is ALWAYS better :p
..totaly agree with you and the small block sawp..its been done over and over and theres no originality in it any more...thus the reason im going alfa on my lloyd

its to bad you couldnt get a 6spd gearbox and mount it in the back directly to a diff.....probably doable with alot of aluminum fab work...in order to "try" and keep the balance
 

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I dunno - this is where I'm very torn! Going with a front-mounted setup (like Dawie has done numerous times with a 6-speed Getrag gearbox up front and an Alfa SEI (Six) sedan dif. at the rear), is enough of a departure from the original design to begin with - leave alone throwing a Japanese setup in there...!

However, I so would love to complete this thing with a drive-line setup worthy of the rest of it!
So did the Alfa 6 have the gearbox bolted to the engine? I thought they were Alfetta/116 style chassis :confused:

To me (and I haven't been playing with Alfa's as long as you guys), the best feature of the 116 chassis is the it's balance. I know the V6's are a bit nose heavy, but attaching the gearbox directly to the engine is only going to worsen the problem.
 

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Just use the Sei diff and a big fatt Getrag gearbox up front, this way it is easy to do and yoy keep the most Alfa parts. Using the Sei gearbox is also an option but i don't know if it will handle the torque/HP.

S2000 driveline is very strong, plenty of 300+bhp cars out there with turbo torque.

Rear suspension on the Milano is not the thing to change, front suspension with the bloody torsionbars would be my choice to completely redesign...

I just love radical modifications...

I have a 33 SW undergoing a Giulietta floorpanswap which will be fitted with a v6, sei gearbox and diff...( but that is still a bit off a secret!!)
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
The Skyline AWD-thing is interesting, but now you may as well build a tube-frame car roundy-round style and just give it a silhouette Alfa body. No longer an Alfa in my opinion. At this stage I can still call it a Alfa. I am not looking to go heavy OR complex OR 4WD for that matter either - I want to basically keep what it is - just improve the whole gearbox/shift-issue.

The mid-mounted GTV6 with 164 front sub-assembly (as discussed in one of my other threads here earlier) is still a great idea, but slated for another project down the line maybe. For now, I have to finish the 3.7, but I would like to fix this one aspect - desperately - without going nuts!

In terms of balance, we have removed SIGNIFICANT amounts of weight from the nose of the 3.7s - A/C stuff, P/S setups, boosters/ABS, torsion bars, stock wiring and tanks and brackets and crap - I mean there is NOTHING left up there! The 24 valve 3.7 motors are even 15 pounds lighter! It's as good as it's going to get up there (without moving the engine back!)

Keep in mind - as noted in Jes' Roxanne-thread - weight added to the center of the car (such as the driver), moves to the rear of the car on the corner scales - by a good margin - so a front-mounted gearbox will add more to the center/rear than to the front! (You're only moving it to about the driver's knees!) Naturally, the weight of whichever differential will ALL go to the rear as well (where these cars can now use some help in the way of traction any way!)

As far as power - there are 600 horsepower turbo S2000s out there, so the gearbox, driveline and rear-end can handle it. Still - Honda guts in my Alfa! (I look at the ricer "NRG" steering quick-release and I cringe...) :D

In the past Glenwood used the old Alfa Sedan dif for this - not all that heavy and pretty strong - it can handle 5-600 horses. I don't know about using the SEI tranny though - they bolted upfront - if they are anything like Alfa's older boxes, I don't need it - already have a weak gearbox. :rolleyes:

The 6-speed Getrag up there is pretty compact and the conversion works EXTREMELY well! I was just looking at the S2K because it is MUCH more readily available than a Alfa Six diff. and costs less than the used BMW M3/M5 gearbox (Getrag.)

As a side-note - when we eliminated the torsion bars up front, we welded up extensive support for the upper shock mounting-points and went with complete coil-overs on this thing!
 

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Losing the torsions is a good move! Now you just need a quicker steering rack in my opinion.

The Sei used a ZF gearbox with a dogleg first. Also used on the Montreal. Dawie should be able to tell you what it can take. I would prefer a dogleg gearbox over a sixspeed because it is very rare, and offcourse its 100% Alfa...

As an option for the Sei diff you could mount just about any diff back there from an irs setup, for instance BMW..

Cutting out and replacing the entire back half of the floor of your car is a giant task and you would have to be very careful with the aligning of the various components or else it will handle worse than before.

Ferrari used a transaxle under the 550, that would be a real nice solution. I believe there is a 75 IMSA here in Holland that uses that gearbox, quite expensive however...
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Losing the torsions is a good move! Now you just need a quicker steering rack in my opinion.
Check! Thanks for the suggestion - also done - (maybe you want to go back and spend some time with the 3.7-thread - Jes and I can't decided if it is 2.0 turns lock-to-lock or 2.1 turns lock-to-lock. :D It's NICE!

Interesting on the 550 setup... $$$ I've even looked at the 924/944/928 transaxle/torque-tube setups, but those boxes over-hang at the rear of the axles back there (wrong way around...)

Any way, back to the topic for this thread - from initial eye-ball it would seem that one could bolt that flat S2K rear assembly up to the fame underneath the Milano and actually come out OK all around without cutting in to the Alfa-chassis! (More like building up to it...) I like the SEI/Monty dog-leg box too - very similar to the ZF that the Maserati BiTurbos used - Nick Muto in LA uses that box to convert V6s in to Spiders - it's still not the best-shifting setup though...

Now here's a thought - someone here posted a link here a while back to some company (here in the States) that makes an after-market transaxle! A complete setup - ready custom-fit to whichever RWD transaxle setup you want! They had different off-sets for the side-shafts (front to rear), various power-ratings and even a paddle-shift option! It was expensive though!

Who was that again!? Where's that link....? Now you keep the transaxle layout, no front tranny - all a single contained unit back there - presumably without the syncro-shifting/durability issues!
 
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