[Biba69]

What is the correct name for the above? I'm referring to the idle controllers where the arm has a screw type drive, so that it increases the idle slowly and closes the same way.

Meaning, it is not an on/off solenoid. I had the correct term recently but for the life of me, can't think of it now.

If anyone reading this has installed one for carbs - especially DCOE's - what brand/model did you use?

I really want to hook one up as compact as possible to go on when I turn on the A/C. It would be nice if it doesn't require a big hole for mounting. If I can find what I want, I'll be mounting it on the end of the firewall cable bracket next to the cable - so thin is good.

If necessary I'll go shopping at Pick-A-part.

 

[Biba69]

I'm banging my head against the wall, please help. The term I'm looking for is a modern word. I don't believe it even has motor in the name. I'm guessing that they might be used on numerous places on more modern cars - among other applications.

To repeat I really want to get one of 'those things' so my idle increases with the A/C on - which it virtually always is.

Please try harder.

 

[Biba69]

Below is a photo of one. Apparently they all use 9V - which might be a problem.

This is the info on one, but they're calling it what I consider the correct term, but all others use a different, to repeat, modern term:

Product Description
An IAC (idle air control) motor is designed to adjust the engine idle RPM speed by opening and closing an air bypass passage inside the throttle body. The cars computer or ECM (electronic control module) receives information from various sensors and will output signals to adjust the IAC motor in or out to adjust engine idle speed by controlling engine idle air. An IAC motor can fail one of two ways, either the motor short circuits and stops working or the motor will develop high resistance and cause the IAC control motor to react slowly, either failure can cause the engine to stall at idle. When a trouble code scan is performed it sometimes won't always detect a failed or weak IAC motor. To check the IAC motor remove the unit, with the wires connected turn the key to the "on" position without starting the engine, the IAC should move in or out. If the IAC motor does nothing it has probably failed, replace it with a new unit and recheck system. Note: While the IAC motor is removed clean (use aerosol carburetor cleaner) the passages the IAC uses to control idle air speed, also inspect the IAC for a build-up on the seating (pointed) end and clean as necessary.

 

[Craig]

linear actuator?

 

[Biba69]

Sounds good, but that's not it.

 

[slyalfa]

most use a stepper motor

 

[Biba69]

I tried stepper motor, but as expected it showed a number of larger gear type motors.

The name I'm looking for is what you would ask for if you went into a dealership to get 'one' for a modern car. I'd seen this term, plugged it into google, and among other things was a video regarding trouble shooting 'one of these things' - one of which was for a GM car. There were four contacts, the two closest to the motor were for the motor, and I assume the other two went to the ECU. To repeat, the fellow used a small 9V battery to test the motor whose end moved out fairly slowly - especially in comparison to a solenoid - and the shaft had thick screw type threads (as opposed to a bolt's threads).

I'm sure it is a common term among those heavily involved with automotive electronics. 'They' are used for much more than automotive idle controllers.

 

[slyalfa]

all the types I have seen are a steeper motor. we put a stepper driver in the VEMS ecu for cars that use them. I think most run in bipolar mode 4 wires.
Stepper motor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the PWM air-valves work more like a voice-coil in a speaker 2 wire type. And some use 4 wires one set to push and one set to pull.

there might be some sort of a servo type but I have not seen one. where there is a dc-motor and some sort of pot to feed back to the controler.

The stepper type just move all the way one way the max number of steps to calibrate like a old floppy disk.
say it is 1/2 way and we move it all the way it will move 1/2 and hit the end and just chatter now if we move it the other way we know where it is.

 

[alfaroad]

Ι'm not so sure but I guess it is an IDLE SOLENOID. I do remember that there was one exactly like that for many alfas in early to mid 80´s for idle control in dual carbs (webber/dellorto DHLA) for euro spec cars. Actually, I sold one nos original alfa like this and had also the mounting bits with it in the box. Looked a very fine and trusted solenoid, indeed. Sorry, dont have photos, however I can recall that this part uses a small bracket screwed somehow directly on the rear carb. If I will remember the issue after 31th of August (when I will return to my base), I can find the right description and even the alfa part number for it since I do remember that this part shown in a new giuletta euro parts manual (1984 year). Or, you can send me a reminder, too .

 

[Biba69]

alfaroad, that's good to know that even Alfa felt the need. I'd sure like to see that bracket. That said, my plan is to attach it to the firewall cable bracket. I should point out that 'our' Alfetta's came with Spicas, so didn't use rods from underneath to activate the carbs. And in my case I was lucky to find a Shankle 'fix' (a very clever one) so that the Spica type throttle assembly doesn't have to be switched out when mounting dual carbs.

I actually don't want to use a solenoid since I'm leery of having it bang the bracket when it comes on. Though I suppose I could put a piece of neoprene where it hits.

I like the idea of a worm drive motor/unit so that it comes on gradually, and goes back the same way.

 

[WA-Alfa]

Biba69 sometime told me that the Alfetta had a AC idle step-up solenoid that acted on the Weber control arm. Maybe post your query on the Alfetta forum or the forum of some other later model alfa - you may get a better (more illuminating) response.

 

[alfaroad]

alfaroad, that's good to know that even Alfa felt the need. I'd sure like to see that bracket. That said, my plan is to attach it to the firewall cable bracket. I should point out that 'our' Alfetta's came with Spicas, so didn't use rods from underneath to activate the carbs. And in my case I was lucky to find a Shankle 'fix' (a very clever one) so that the Spica type throttle assembly doesn't have to be switched out when mounting dual carbs.

I actually don't want to use a solenoid since I'm leery of having it bang the bracket when it comes on. Though I suppose I could put a piece of neoprene where it hits.

I like the idea of a worm drive motor/unit so that it comes on gradually, and goes back the same way.

The one I mentioned, dont take it as a true solenoid maybe it was a stepped or something like this. It was meant to mount on the carb ( on the rear carb of twin carbs) controlling directly the twin carb throtle axles. As previously said, I can confirm that this part was for the 1984 euro spec new giuletta with Dellorto DHLA carbs. This also means that part can be mainly used in any other alfa with Dellorto carbs and also with Weber/solex maybe with some mods on its associated bracket. I 'm thinking that it will be wise to ask a good Dellorto dealer about this, maybe they know better.

 

[alfaroad]

oh, forgot...the new giuletta of late 70's -mid 80's was actually a 116 model, too.

 

[Biba69]

A bit hard to see but this is the wiring set-up for the idle control switch. The two center ones are copper and the two outside ones are green.

Off hand, I'd guess that the copper ones are + and hope the unit takes 9V.

Connecting the 'electrodes' to the two outside ones will be a pain. Are there such things as mini alligator clips?

 

[alfaroad]

As I feel from the photo, these tiny wires are the direct coil wires from the upper part. The problem with these wires is from their coating which needs to be burnt first so then to solder the copper. So, the trick is to use a good high temperature soldering tool for the coating and then another one with less temperature for the main soldering, unless you have an adj soldering iron .

 

[WA-Alfa]

Biba where did you get this idle control switch and are you able to provide any better photos?

 

[Biba69]

I found it on the Internet. The companies name is Global Automotive of Miami, Inc.

It was only $20- so figured it was at least worth a try. The wires aren't broken, though it is virtually impossible to reassemble the unit and guarantee the wires aren't touching each other, but assumed it didn't matter.

I can't get it to work using the center two as + and the two outside ones as - and vice versa using a 9V battery. Best I can get is a small spark from the center two contacts.

There are tons and tons of these gizmos, but there is no info on them. Apparently all of the seller's idea is that you have a car with one of them on, so match it to one of the pictures. In some cases they'll comment as to what make of car it goes on.

Even if I could get it to work, the next thing would be to find a connector for it.

Also, I would need one that can overcome what I'm guessing is about a 15 to 20# pressure to move/open the throttle arm over and over, etc., without burning out.

I'm not sure what you want to see that I've not already included.

 

[alfaroad]

the same color wires (copper) must belong in one coil, no doubt. the other two must be from the other one. Which set is the main power, it is an issue. Do you use a 9v from a small battery? If yes , the spark seen does say anything maybe needs more amperage or 12V, too. Now for the plug: a good electronic technician can sold directly wires on the output pins and shrink them, too. then also will have around there lot of black silicone so to make it very stable and looking nice.

 

[Biba69]

These units are definitely triggered by a 'command' from an ECU so no telling what the voltage is. It could be as low as 3V I suppose, but I've used a small 9V battery since that is what the guy in a video used for two different dah-de-dahs (I have yet to find the correct name for these gizmos - I'm sure I could find more information about them if I had it).

I really don't like the idea of soldering wires to the pins, but would use that solution as a last resort. First I need to find out how to make them work.

 

[Craig]

G'Day Biba,

I pretty certain it's a 4 wire stepper motor (or bipolar stepper motor) and that you will need a controller to drive it. See here in the fundamentals of operation section.

It cannot be driven with just a DC voltage.

If it is a stepper motor, turning the shaft you will feel lots of little 'steps'.