Alfa Romeo Forums banner
41 - 60 of 125 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
17,530 Posts
On the Holden engine question-- This is the little I know about that question. Please correct me in any areas that are not correct.

I was contacted by a gentleman in northern New York who was interested in buying ALFA engine parts for his 164 24v 3.0 engine into a GTV6 chassis project. He changed his mind after doing more research. He told me he had decided to go with a V6 from a Chevy Camaro. This engine was based on the ALFA 24v 3.0, where GM had purchased the licensing rights from ALFA. GM had swapped out the rubber timing belts for a more robust chain drive, and enlarged the displacement to around 3.6 or 3.7, and was pumping out 350HP. He found a Camaro in a salvage yard for the engine. I heard later that the Camaro engine was also used in Holdens.

He added that if anyone came down on him for using a GM engine in an ALFA, he could reply that the basic engine was design was originally from ALFA.. the chain timing drive would save him all the headaches of the rubber belts... it had about 200HP more than the ALFA 12v 2.5... and on a cross-country drive, he could stop at any Chevy dealership across the nation for parts and service! So, no apologies to the purists. I couldn't argue with that reasoning.

Peter
This is 100% untrue. Holden designed this engine from scratch. Has nothing to do with the Busso Alfa engine. Heck it would all over GM and Holden advertisements if even remotely true

The things people will invent to make themselves feel better
Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,461 Posts
It's interesting getting feedback on Alfa models that were unavailable to us here in the US, from other parts and other markets. The good, the bad, and the ugly so to speak! Thanks guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
On the Holden engine question-- This is the little I know about that question. Please correct me in any areas that are not correct.

I was contacted by a gentleman in northern New York who was interested in buying ALFA engine parts for his 164 24v 3.0 engine into a GTV6 chassis project. He changed his mind after doing more research. He told me he had decided to go with a V6 from a Chevy Camaro. This engine was based on the ALFA 24v 3.0, where GM had purchased the licensing rights from ALFA. GM had swapped out the rubber timing belts for a more robust chain drive, and enlarged the displacement to around 3.6 or 3.7, and was pumping out 350HP. He found a Camaro in a salvage yard for the engine. I heard later that the Camaro engine was also used in Holdens.

He added that if anyone came down on him for using a GM engine in an ALFA, he could reply that the basic engine was design was originally from ALFA.. the chain timing drive would save him all the headaches of the rubber belts... it had about 200HP more than the ALFA 12v 2.5... and on a cross-country drive, he could stop at any Chevy dealership across the nation for parts and service! So, no apologies to the purists. I couldn't argue with that reasoning.

Peter
Thats a very tall tale. The only things the 24v Busso and the GM HF V6 have in common is both are 60deg V6 engines and 24 valves. The 2.8L HF V6 was introduced in 2004 for the 2005 CTS, while the Busso was still in production. The current GM LGX in the Camaro is derived from this motor. It is well known that Alfa refused to sell the design, even after Cosworth came calling to try and continue building them.

The 3.2 JTS engine is the GM HF V6 Block with Alfa modified cylinder heads. This guy probably read that somewhere and somehow conflated it into the engine being used outside Alfa which is not the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSk

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Agree with, in fact know first hand the GM engine has nothing in common with alfa. The GM engine is a horrible thing. Rev it to 6k and it sounds and feels like its going to blow up. The alfa V6 is not without issue, the cam covers and rear main seal leak and its time consuming to maintain the cambelt but the GM engine shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. Sadly the alfa V6 production days were numbered due to European emission standards.

If people like the look of the Brera maybe the GT would be a better alternative. Stay away from the jts but the GT did come with the 3.2 alfa engine. Its a nice looking car and really one of the last real alfa's. Quite claustrophobic and difficult to see out of but I would imagine they make a great weekender for someone looking for an import.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
It's interesting getting feedback on Alfa models that were unavailable to us here in the US, from other parts and other markets. The good, the bad, and the ugly so to speak! Thanks guys.
I’d love to show folks in the US some of the cars they missed out on but which we are very familiar with, starting with the Alfasud. Now that’s a car to lust after which is still affordable even though so few are left of course.
 

·
Moderator
2015 Chevy (Holden) SS, 1989 Milano (Shankle Sport), 1991 164S
Joined
·
18,543 Posts
I liked the Sud in it's different models. Had a chance to drive a 4 door Sport at speed on a track in Scotland, back in 75, with an Alfa Factory driver along. He drove first to show me what it could do, and then I was able to put in a few laps. It was an Alfa Days Meet, and they had a few different Alfa Models there. I was disappointed they wouldn't let me drove the Montreal, though.

Also saw the 2 door Sprint Coupe version in Tasmania, owned by the guy we rented a camper van from. Neat looking. Wanted one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: alfaloco

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,461 Posts
Unbelievable to think they missed out on the alfa sud, alfa's beetle. A good sud is one of the best drivers cars you could ever get behind. Another life time ago now, maybe even a few life times ago.
Yep... Henry N Manney III sure liked the Sud. I recall reading his reports in R&T, way back when. Never had an opportunity to drive one myself, but I've seen a Sud driven briskly and they appear to handle very well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aggie57

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Yep... Henry N Manney III sure liked the Sud. I recall reading his reports in R&T, way back when. Never had an opportunity to drive one myself, but I've seen a Sud driven briskly and they appear to handle very well.
I have posted this before but its worth another shot because its just so good. Wait for the guest appearance from Peter Griffin.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
I have posted this before but its worth another shot because its just so good. Wait for the guest appearance from Peter Griffin.

Love that video. So many of those Sud series cars ended up as club racers, they'd led a hard life by then! Nice to see Joe Beninca get such a good rap from the commentators and other drivers. His workshop was only 1k or so from my place in Melbourne, I spent a lot of time up there working on various cars and just hanging out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: alfettaparts2

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
Yep... Henry N Manney III sure liked the Sud. I recall reading his reports in R&T, way back when. Never had an opportunity to drive one myself, but I've seen a Sud driven briskly and they appear to handle very well.
They handled in a way that their simple design and suspension layout had no right to do. Just sublime, loved to rev and could go round the outside of many supposedly more exotic and more powerful cars. The Angeles Crest Highway is made for them...if only!
 
  • Like
Reactions: autobroker

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Alister my first track day at Winton about 30 years ago Colin took me out in his 33 to show me the way around. We came out of the sweeper and four wheel drifted all the way into the first right hand tit. I can still see his face as he turned to me and said 'I bet you didn't think a front wheel drive could do that'.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
17,530 Posts
Pete I have driven a 1600 GTA and many a sud/33 . There wouldn't be a race. The GTA would be through turn two by the time the sud hit the brakes into one 🤣
Did the GTA have the original 113 hp?

On an airfield circuit, I reckon the Sud, even though 100kgs (?) heavier, would beat it. I found most rear wheel drive cars could not take sweepers remotely close to the speed of my Sud (but to be fair my car had modified spring and shock rates) ... so yeah maybe a standard Sud would be slower, and you would need a rolling start. Heck I used to loose 3 or 4 places every start
Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Did the GTA have the original 113 hp?

Pete
Yeah mate, it was just a dirty old original road car. Lived in the workshop for several years after we did the engine. Took it for a respectable run every now and then. I'm not a fan of 105's and to be honest if I had to go away for the weekend and had a choice between the two I would take a good sud over a 105 any day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Actually Pete I think it was a 1300 GTA junior. Sorry I don't really pay attention to some details because the cars just don't interest me that much. I would still put money on the gta over the sud. I have photos somewhere but I don't like posting them because they are customer cars for a business that I worked for and I don't think its appropriate.

The poor guy that started this thread must be wondering what the hell any of this has to do with his original post which he replied to once.
 

·
Moderator
2015 Chevy (Holden) SS, 1989 Milano (Shankle Sport), 1991 164S
Joined
·
18,543 Posts
Lol, our discussions do tend to wander sometimes. No harm done in this case, but yes, clearly off the original subject, which was the desirability of the Brera and whether or not it would be legal in the US. I suspect yes as of this year. If not, would be next year.

Good looking, even if it might have a trash engine according to some.
 
41 - 60 of 125 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top