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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
I've recently purchased in 1974 Alfa Romeo. I believe it's a spider. The air cleaner says 2000 iniezione spica.

Supposedly the motors been completely rebuilt but it wasn't put back together again and it needed quite a few parts. I've got most of the parts and is mostly together and in the car. I thought when I started putting the motor together that should double check timming marks.

Question one, On number one cylinder, top dead center and both cam lobes pointing outward. The passenger side, right hand camshaft is a 16th of an inch off of the line. I think an entire tooth on the chain would move it much further than that.

Second question is does anyone know where I can get the tachometer gear? It goes in the motor and I believe has the timing pointer on it.

The third question is the manual says that the distributor, when on top dead center number one cylinder, that the rotor needs to point towards the front of the car. Does that matter as long as it's timed ? So instead of front it's pointed up, so number one wire would go up instead of to the front? The manual says it matters to the oil pump? I'm not sure y it would matter though.

This car is a little different than anything else I've worked on. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Once I get those things figured out I need to figure out the smog pump and the holes in the exhaust manifold. There's nothing there to hook the smog pump to
 

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Punctuation is your friend! To answer your questions:

1) Assuming the motor is stock, both cams should be lined up with cam cap marks on cylinder #1 with the piston at TDC. Additionally, both cam lobes should be pointing outward.

2) I don't know that the tach gear is sold new - try APE in Cali for a used one or ask in the parts section of the forum. Same for the pointer.

3) With #1 at TDC and the cams properly tones, pull the dizzy cap off and check the position of the rotor. Regardless of what the manual says, that's where your #1 plug wire is. Firing order is 1-3-4-2.

This should get you going in the right direction. Assuming you have Spica fuel injection, there are other timing issues to deal with. Read up and ask questions before you start changing things.

Welcome and good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes it has fuel injection. That's the step I was at when I realized I was going to need the pointer to be precise,
 

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...the right hand camshaft is about 16th of an inch off the Mark I think an entire tooth on the chain would move it much further than that.
You see the small bolts at the front of your two cams that are installed in one of the many holes arranged in a circle? That's the fine adjustment for cam position. Remove the bolt, rotate the cam so it lines up exactly, replace the bolt in the position where holes in the camshaft and sprocket are aligned (and yes, that position will be at the bottom). Your manual explains this procedure in greater detail.

where I can get the tachometer gear it goes in the motor and I believe has the timing pointer
Is the pointer all you need? As gprocket says, you can make one, even out of wire.

the manual says that the distributor went on top dead center number one the rotor needs to point towards the front of the car does that matter as long as it's timed so instead of front it's pointed up
You can ignore the thing about the rotor facing forward at #1 TDC. Ideally, the oil pump should have been installed so the rotor is pointing forward at #1 TDC, so any mechanic or future owner working on the car won't get confused. But as gprocket wrote, the engine will run OK with #1 in any orientation.

Nonetheless, there will never be an easier time to remove, re-orient and replace the oil pump. Did you install the pump? Did you (or whoever installed it) follow the procedure to prevent binding and eventual shaft breakage? If not, search the BB for explanation.
 

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I think that we assume that the engine block is mounted on an engine stand.
Is this true or is it still mounted in the car but pulled apart in a somewhat limited way?
Maybe pictures.

I don't know what the rules for posting pictures are but one of our administrators might
volunteer to assist you. You seem real and honest but your punctuation skills need to
exhibited to the folks here in....:D

NB: Actually an articular on the radio not long ago indicated that in the years to come punctuation
(and complete words for that matter) may be come a thing of the past due to the advent
of institutions like "Twitter, Emogies, and the like.

Many years ago there was an episode of "Star Trek" It turned out to be Earth circa 2400.
The two fighting societies were called the Yangs and the Comms.
The Yangs of course was the new name for Yanks and Comms was the new name for the Communists. And the world goes on..

So Ddub you may be the harbinger of what the future brings.
I'm glad I won't have to suffer for too long....:devilish:

BTW: I have the same car that I'm working on but it was converted to Webers.
I still have all the Spica parts so if the need araises.
 

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I've recently purchased in 1974 Alfa Romeo ...<snip>...I get those things figured out I need to figure out the smog pump and the holes in the exhaust manifold there's nothing there to hook the smog pump to
A 1974 Never had a smog pump
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I was thinking same.how about the threaded holes in the exhaust manifold? I'm guessing plug them.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited by Moderator)
I think that we assume that the engine block is mounted on an engine stand.
Is this true or is it still mounted in the car but pulled apart in a somewhat limited way?
Maybe pictures.

I don't know what the rules for posting pictures are but one of our administrators might
volunteer to assist you. You seem real and honest but your punctuation skills need to
exhibited to the folks here in....:D

NB: Actually an articular on the radio not long ago indicated that in the years to come punctuation
(and complete words for that matter) may be come a thing of the past due to the advent
of institutions like "Twitter, Emogies, and the like.

Many years ago there was an episode of "Star Trek" It turned out to be Earth circa 2400.
The two fighting societies were called the Yangs and the Comms.
The Yangs of course was the new name for Yanks and Comms was the new name for the Communists. And the world goes on..

So Ddub you may be the harbinger of what the future brings.
I'm glad I won't have to suffer for too long....:devilish:

BTW: I have the same car that I'm working on but it was converted to Webers.
I still have all the Spica parts so if the need araises.
Sorry I am very busy and I hate typing but I'm really in a spot. I have 30 days to finish my bus project and be out of my shop. The alfa needs to run or I'll be forced to send it to copart. It's the only reason why I reached out to the alfa community.

Been a long time since I had to worry about punctuation but I'm giving it my best shot here. And yes nowadays it's all about the Google microphone, and it's not very nice to me sometimes. I do find it better than typing it's more like I'm talking and asking somebody a question, which is what I need to do. I live in a small town and there's no one here that knows alfas.

I'm trying to time the ridiculous mechanical fuel injection. I have no timing marker for the crankshaft I can bring it to TDC with the cams aligned there's three letters on the crankshaft. I can make temporary pointer and then advance it to a different letter but I don't understand the letters.

This manual is as bad as the Google microphone I'm assuming that the tachometer drive gear has the pointer Incorporated with it is that true? Do you have one you could sell me
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Sorry I am very busy and I hate typing but I'm really in a spot.i have 30 days to finish my bus project and be out of my shop. The alfa needs to run or I'll be forced to send it to copart. It's the only reason why I reached out to the alpha community. Been a long time since I had to worry about punctuation but I'm giving it my best shot here. And yes nowadays it's all about the Google microphone and it's not very nice to me sometimes. I do find it better than typing it's more like I'm talking and asking somebody a question, which is what I need to do. I live in a small town and there's no one here that knows alfas. I'm trying to time the ridiculous mechanical fuel injection. I have no timing marker for the crankshaft I can bring it to TDC with the cams aligned there's three letters on the crankshaft I can make temporary pointer and then advance it to a different letter but I don't understand the letters This manual is as bad as the Google microphone I'm assuming that the tachometer drive gear has the pointer Incorporated with it is that true? Do you have one you could sell me
That wasn't much better. To awnser your question it's in the car
 

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With regard to the marks on the crankshaft pulley, there should be four. "P" is TDC, "F" is the static ignition timing mark, "M" is the maximum ignition advance mark, and "I" is the injection timing mark. As described above, I would fabricate a timing pointer and use a dial indicator or soda straw in the #1 cylinder to determine TDC (with cam lobes for #1 pointed out) and then set the pointer to the "P" mark. With care, that should get you very close to actual TDC.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited by Moderator)
What is that then?
You see the small bolts at the front of your two cams that are installed in one of the many holes arranged in a circle? That's the fine adjustment for cam position. Remove the bolt, rotate the cam so it lines up exactly, replace the bolt in the position where holes in the camshaft and sprocket are aligned (and yes, that position will be at the bottom). Your manual explains this procedure in greater detail.



Is the pointer all you need? As gprocket says, you can make one, even out of wire.



You can ignore the thing about the rotor facing forward at #1 TDC. Ideally, the oil pump should have been installed so the rotor is pointing forward at #1 TDC, so any mechanic or future owner working on the car won't get confused. But as gprocket wrote, the engine will run OK with #1 in any orientation.

Nonetheless, there will never be an easier time to remove, re-orient and replace the oil pump. Did you install the pump? Did you (or whoever installed it) follow the procedure to prevent binding and eventual shaft breakage? If not, search the BB for explanation.
Okay well now I'm a little worried. I realized those weren't the timing marks on the cams and whoever supposedly built this motor didn't number the caps. They're definitely not put back on in the factory position one of the marks is on the front side of the cam mark.

So here's a question, the Piston is at top dead center, the timing marks on the cams are straight up and down and the cam lobes are facing horizontal with the valve cover mounting surface. It looks like the timing marks on those caps definitely aren't straight up and down if I line those marks up the cam lobes wouldn't be horizontal..please help if anyone knows .. I'm not sure I'm even posting this right to the community hope somebody sees it..
 

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Discussion Starter #18
What is that then?

Okay well now I'm a little worried. I realized those weren't the timing marks on the cams and whoever supposedly built this motor didn't number the caps. They're definitely not put back on in the factory position one of the marks is on the front side of the cam mark . So here's a question, the Piston is at top dead center, the timing marks on the cams are straight up and down and the cam lobes are facing horizontal with the valve cover mounting surface. It looks like the timing marks on those caps definitely aren't straight up and down if I line those marks up the cam lobes wouldn't be horizontal..please help if anyone knows .. I'm not sure I'm even posting this right to the community hope somebody sees it..
I've recently purchased in 1974 Alfa Romeo. I believe it's a spider. The air cleaner says 2000 iniezione spica. Supposedly the motors been completely rebuilt but it wasn't put back together again and it needed quite a few parts. I've got most of the parts and is mostly together and in the car. I thought and when I started putting the motor together that should double check timming marks. Question one, On number one cylinder, top dead center and both cam lobes pointing outward. The passenger side, right hand camshaft is a 16th of an inch off of the line. I think an entire tooth on the chain would move it much further than that. Second question is does anyone know where I can get the tachometer gear? It goes in the motor and I believe has the timing pointer on it. The third question is the manual says that the distributor, when on top dead center number one cylinder, that the rotor needs to point towards the front of the car. Does that matter as long as it's timed ? So instead of front it's pointed up,so number one wire would go up instead of to the front? The manual says it matters to the oil pump? I'm not sure y it would matter though. This car is a little different than anything else I've worked on. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Once I get those things figured out I need to figure out the smog pump and the holes in the exhaust manifold. There's nothing there to hook the smog pump to
15996195384902150208577657897364.jpg
15996195384902150208577657897364.jpg
15996197039141687052031703457247.jpg
 

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It looks like the timing marks on those caps definitely aren't straight up and down if I line those marks up the cam lobes wouldn't be horizontal..
Who said that the timing marks on the two, front caps would be straight up? The first picture in post #18 looks OK - the front cap on the exhaust side seems correct. The only issue is that that cam isn't aligned for #1 TDC.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited by Moderator)
That's what I'm afraid of. I didn't notice that small mark on exhaust cam. Let me bring piston to true top then I'll take another pic ... what a nightmare.

I think bubba the barber built this engine, about to give up ... here's my new pointer I just built
IMG_20200908_212726468.jpg
 
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