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`61 Giulietta Spider, `65 Giulia Ti 1750, `69 GT junior 1600, `73 Spider 2000, `74 GTV 2000, `98 156
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just started overhauling our `61 Giulietta Spider`s brakes - new linings via AlfaStop, adjusters, wheel cylinder kits etc etc and the car appears to have front brake drums on the rear brakes . In addition the shoes although the same shape as the pictures I see on the AlfaStop site are the same width as the front shoes as is the friction material. The rear shoe material sent to us by AlfaStop is much narrower and the rivet holes do not match the shoes taken off the vehicle so obviously wrong. I`ve tried to find out whether there is a difference with some cars having bigger shoes/drums on the rear but can`t find any mention on either AlfaStop`s site, or any literature I have. There must have been an option however as the shoes are definitely correct rear shoes but match the drums. Was there an option on higher performance versions or something done in the US as a common modification? The car despite being a Normale has a Veloce engine minus carbs fitted and has obviously been played around with. It originates from the US.
 

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photos would help, the 1600 velocs and SS had different shoes and drums to the normale. ( i think they use the fronts off an earlier car) maybe someone velocised your car. are the shoes flat metal or a cast one.

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Sounds like you have the rear brakes from a later 3 shoe front drum car which means you effectively have the 2 shoe fronts set up as leading & trailing rears (No it's not quite that simple, it requires special backing plates)

Post a picture and also of the chassis & engine numbers - we will tell you what is what

Ciao
Greig
 

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Some photos of my ‘61 Spider’s original brake parts going on during its trial and error rebirth below. My first attempt at these. Straight forward in hindsight. Thankfully no one had Young Frankensteined it (“could be worse, could be raining”) not there wasn’t some second guessing myself as it all went together. At least all the parts were there.

Sounds like yours has had some extras added for surprises. Tony is very careful sending his parts out, so when you post your pictures we can see what you have compared to mine. Your car’s Veloce stuff mentioned has me wondering what’s in your differential for gears?


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`61 Giulietta Spider, `65 Giulia Ti 1750, `69 GT junior 1600, `73 Spider 2000, `74 GTV 2000, `98 156
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you all for your responses. I shall get my son to post photos for me which undoubtedly will help. The car does not have the 3 shoe front brakes and I strongly suspect it has been changed from original 1300 Normale format - the engine for a start (1300 Veloce, minus cams & carbs, a pleasant surprise). No doubt these parts were a lot cheaper and more readily available when these changes were perhaps done. Someone mentioned the diff ratio also and it may be the complete rear end was changed. When we got the car about 2 years ago it wasn`t until I started trying to date it and then identify exactly what we had that I realised it appeared to be a frankenstein car. It makes it very hard as you all appreciate to order parts when you don`t actually know what you have. So far I thought it was only an engine block substitution. These brakes are a classic example and it suggests so might the rear axle be different to what it should in theory be.
I`ll get onto these photos.
 

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1962 Giulietta Spider, 1965 Giulia TI, 1969 GT Junior, 1971 Spider, 1974 GTV 2000
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Hi all, photos taken just now of the rear brakes on aforementioned car by @alfavirusnz .
looking into more closely now after talking with dad, while the car is officially a 61 Normale, it appears to have later model 101 1600 rear drum brakes on it (the cross over period when disks were on the front).
images below, where the drums are the same front and back.
the first image shows the original 44mm Ferodo linings for standard steel shoed rear brake cars, however upon measuring just now, ours has the 57mm aluminum shoes which was not expected.
It never cross our mind to search 1600 101 brake parts when buying the bits and pieces, and as there is only a single option provided for the rears on Alfastop for the 1300s, we just went with those.
looks like the correct linings will be AlfaStop - passionate about Giuliettas (vintage Alfa Romeo Spares/Parts) Trans
 

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Tim can you post your chassis number please, I have a friend with an April 62 chassis 370648 that I have done quite a lot of work on. It's always interesting to compare similar cars

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Greig
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Chassis number is AR *171378. These cars are very rare in New Zealand, it appears 4-5, with roughly the same number of coupes and 3 berlinas. They were never sold new here so all are imports, usually from the USA, although I know one of the berlinas was from UK and brought back by an expat on study leave in the UK.
Two years ago we paid NZ$80K, simply because there was no choice and my son and I wanted one - he paid as he earns the big dollars now.
Oddly enough we have a friend who lives in the same city and has a spider built within 18 of our car in late 1961. His is immaculate and restored a decade or so ago when he resided in the UK where he bought it. Unfortunately he`s away at the moment so couldn`t do the usual and go and check his car and ask questions like we do normally. My wife wants to go for a road trip next Feb when she turns 65 and we wanted a memorable car hence redoing the brakes etc as they kept going out of adjustment and pulling to one side. It is now our summer and Feb is usually hot plus my son and I attended a very memorable event of some 1600kms last November and the car never missed a beat and was very suited to the roads the event was on. Nothing like a convertible when the weather is great and the roads we are to go on are similar
Divotandtralee we`ve come to the same conclusion, or at least hypothesis that the rear axle in its entirety has been changed. That would give higher gearing for highway cruising making it a little more relaxed for your type of roads, the bigger brakes inconsequential. The brakes certainly look as though they`ve always been on that axle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ah Pete but its not the right friction material. The penny pinching old pensioner in me is tempted but we`d rather have it at optimum and be able to use it hard with full confidence. That`s why we went to the trouble and considerable expense to purchase and import the correct sized Pirelli Cinturatos We want the best of what it was originally capable of, not a compromised example.
 

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You have more than enough braking especially with rears bigger than necessary.. I've used both types of compounds on cars and they re very seamless in performance. There is no special sauce on Giuliettas that require 50's technology to stop them
 

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Are you you sure that the problems you have had are not a front to rear balance problem?
New linings will not necessarily solve that.

And I’ve always wondered - how does one remove bonded linings from aluminum shoes?

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Divotandtralee my friend who has the same car (18 apart) says that there is a great difference in the feel and performance of the correct lining material (from Alfastop) and substitutes. He has used several alternative materials over the decades he`s owned the car, rstores Alfas and when he was in the UK did development work and product testing for Alfastop. It appears our car has the 3 ton light truck type material plus it looks as though they are contaminated despite no apparent leaks from the wheel cylinders so time for a change, Also all the material I have read state the Ferodo brake lining material used originally, certainly for road performance, is best.
It seems our pulling symptom comes from two things a faulty snail adjuster on the rhs front and contaminated lining material of the wrong specs anyway.
Joe, linings bonded to aluminium shoes removed with a chisel and then grinder or sandpaper. not a hard job and if done cautiously results in no damage to the face of the shoe. The brake shops that rebond shoes use a buffing wheel.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You jest young Peter.
I`m a believer in originality and although the car is not as it came from the factory it is nonetheless modified/altered in period. We want to keep those impressive truck sized drum brakes. As everybody here knows getting an old car means you usually get all the previous bodges and dubious modifications and indifferent workmanship that comes with most old cars. They were not always valuable, nor were parts that readily available and previous owners even if they cared often had to just make do. We consider ourselves very lucky to even have one and although having patina it has within the last 2 years passed the rigorous VINZ test on entry so know it is basically very sound, but a work in progress. It is not our intention to create an unusable concours car though.
 
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