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I CAN understand why every second car is not an Alfa Romeo

60K views 683 replies 31 participants last post by  alfettaparts2 
#1 ·
We drove our 156 v6 from Tauranga to Hamilton yesterday to show my parents and to have dinner. Yes I put the old thermostat back in ... and yes she ran cold ...

But what an awesome car. So much torque. Doesn't really need a gearbox. How the heck did they do that? Man they must breathe so well.

Went up the Kaimai ranges in top gear without me having to accelerate more than a few millimetres and never dropped below 95km/h. Okay on the way home I dropped down a couple of gears because the corners are tighter.

Quiet, handles bumps well, corners instinctively (this sort of driving you can't tell that is is FWD), didn't use much petrol, aircon worked well, radio worked all the way (major concern with the kids as our old Honda Odyssey looses the station) and very easy to keep to the speed limit. I did though hit the rev limiter in 2nd near the end of the trip home when I was playing ... she revs so fast!

I honestly cannot understand why so many buy other brands! What a car, and strangely reminds me of my GTV in being such a solid and relaxed cruiser/mile eater.
Pete
 
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#560 ·
Christ, you`re talking North Island prices. Nothing like that down here. Another thing that I have observed is that the standard of workmanship seems lower up there I`m afraid to say. We used to have people from all over NZ come to our workshop and I would say we did most of the GTV6`s, Lancia Themas, Tii BMW`s and early injected 911`s in NZ as well as many 105 Alfas. I was very proud of it.
 
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#561 ·
I still recommend Italian Job even though I can get most things done privately.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend doing a cambelt on a 24v without camlocks. We bought a 156 v6 auto that had recently had a cambelt changed. Turns out they hadn't done the water pump at the same time. But the real moral of the story was that when I had the cambelt done again (with water pump this time) the car went heaps better - timing belt was off! Use camlocks to get the timing right.
 
#563 ·
Now that I have done considerable research on this job, if I had not already made my camshaft locking devices, I would purchase the cam locking tools. Maybe when I do the next cambelt. I'm also no longer scared about undoing the camshaft pulley bolts, although I would not do that without that cam locking tools.

But yes agree with you all, cam timing must be right, and my motor runs like a champ so not concerned about that issue
Pete
 
#564 ·
and my motor runs like a champ so not concerned about that issue
And that's exactly why you don't do a whole bunch of extra work for no reason.

For the cam timing to be out it would have to jump a tooth. When this happens on the 24V6 the engine has a very distinct idle and exhaust note. A mechanic who knows this would be able to tell if the timing is out. In that case of course you would need to use the blocks to reset it because there are no marks on the camshafts.
On routine cambelt service no need. Just think of it as any other cambelt and imagine the sprockets have a keyway.
 
#565 ·
A horribly difficult day working on the 156v6. New belt and tensioner finally on and all marks line up ... but heck what an unpleasant job.

The only good thing is we have finally found the smoking gun, the tensioner bearing was utterly stuffed
Pete
 
#568 · (Edited)
Come on you two, let's move on.

My 156v6 will be for sale. Its burnt my family, father (expert mechanic) and I out. I like the car and she fantastic to drive but I don't want to be working on 2 cars constantly. And she has deprived me of 3 weekends work on the GTV.

I would recommend to anybody that wants one of these cars to have a local garage, they trust, to do the maintenance, so you can just enjoy the driving experience as they are horrible to work on. I could write a very long chapter for a book on the poor design from a maintenance point of view of this car. So easily resolved with a little more thought and practical engineering

Yes I would probably be keeping the car if I had that situation, but I've always maintained my own cars ...

Pete
 
#569 ·
Come on you two, let's move on.
Pete, there is no problem on my behalf, that's why the ignore function was invented. I am a qualified mechanic with extensive experience on Italian cars. In particular 156. I don't come on here to be told rubbish. Quite frankly its insulting. I think your in IT? Imagine if I came to your house and told you how to do your job with my qualifications. Like I said it's insulting.

Shame you are selling the car when just getting the hang of working on it. Alfa engineers where a bit crazy turning that lump of an engine sideways and making it FWD but after a while its as easy to work on as any other piece of crap. Don't give up, start looking for a cheap GTA (y)
 
#571 ·
If I do replace it, it will be just a car that I don't care about. The GTV is getting closer to being completed and I only need one car that takes all my time. Yes the cambelt is now done and probably will be good for years to come, but I've spent too much time working on it. I found replacing the cambelt to be a horrid job and if I was to do it again, I'd pay somebody :) ... but then be shocked at the cost. I've been trying to run the 156v6 as a family car, and it's just not possible unless you are rich enough to get her serviced. I'm not, or struggle to justify the cost. To all readers: a cambelt is worth putting $10 away a week into a jar and to save up for. You don't want to do it!

But there are many things that could have been designed to be so much easier to work on, i.e. why not have an access opening so you can get at the tensioner bolts, and some of cambelt cover bolts easier, and the crankshaft nut ... ***!!!. It is only holding on a pulley that does not want to come off. Why the need for more than 50 ft/lbs? Just stupid and unnecessary design. I know it is a big nut, but without a rattle gun and a lot of luck you will never get it off ... and it is doing so little. The only reason it is done up to 40000000 ft/lbs is because it is a large nut. But there is no justification for this. Just bad engineering, full stop.

I do actually like the very simple tensioner. Very easy to set. Not super easy to install due to access issues, but once we made the tool to tension it, easy enough. So yes alfettaparts would have done this considerably quicker than my father and I, but it took us over 8 hours I think, and a lot of I hope that is right moments, and a lot of how the heck are we going to get that off/on moments too. I made many tools, and my father spent lots of money buying tools (41mm nut, etc.)

If my father was not available, I would have failed ...
Pete
 
#573 ·
You've now spent that 8 hours - it is a sunk cost and shouldn't be part of your decision process! Economics is my stock in trade (cars are just a passion). Remember, the biggest cost in car ownership is depreciation not maintenance. I choose to buy a $4k 156 and pay for maintenance rather than a $10k japanese boring pos and lose 17% per year (AA figures no idea of their veracity). The saved $1,300 per year pays for a fair bit of maintenance. (These are NZ figures - Aussie cars don't depreciate at the same rate so the numbers are different). Depends too where you are in NZ. Christchurch is pretty lucky having The Italian Job to service our Alfas.

You could go electric, next to zero maintenance, no road user charges (so far) and the electricity cost is way lower than petrol. On purely economic grounds they can be a good option. Me, I'm going to plant some trees and drive a 156.

However, I certainly hear you on designs that make servicing hard. I assume a lot of design is to make it easy to assemble not work on. I replaced a 156's broken wing mirror last weekend with one off a parts car (well, two as the replacements were colour coded and the orginals weren't). Then found that one seemed to have something loose inside. The mirror itself just pushes on - I was sooo worried about breaking it pulling it off! Easy to put back together! So it took me as long to fix that wing mirror as to install a replacement front bumper. Then this weekend I think I spent four hours replacing an ABS sensor. It's about a 15 minute job but there are at least three different (incompatible) cable arrangements from the sensor to the first connector - luckly the third parts car had the one I needed. Alfa aren't the only culprits. To replace a Volvo headlight required complete removal of the front bumper which required removing the wheels, wheel well liners ... 6-7 hour job - to replace a headlight!
 
#574 · (Edited)
The problem is wife now hates the car ... or more accurately hates the fact that another weekend was consumed by me always in the shed

I hate it at the moment too, but the hate will pass but I'm starting to long for a Toyota where I don't give a toss, it just needs to always go
Pete
 
#575 ·
When the wife gets a thing about the car best for the sake of peace to get rid of it Pete. You could get a manual Twin Spark - they have more room around the engine bay, are a sportier more agile drive and more reasonable in the economy stakes. The biggest problem though is their age regardless of what engine but the same applies to any other brand. Old Toyotas from the same era suffer from the same problems really. it is generally symptomatic of post 2000 cars. Best solution if you`re mindful of the maintenance costs and long term ownership is owning and running an earlier car be it an Alfa (now more expensive to buy than the "moderns") or a Toyota, or Fiat.
We always run a Fiat as our just get in and drive daily transport - current is a 2008 Punto 1.3 turbo diesel 6spd manual and like every Fiat beforehand has been extremely cheap to run and as reliable as any Toyota but with more style and a little more fun to drive. Love it every time I do an oil change with its 3.2 litre capacity and oil filter high up on the front of the engine. Even better it is chain drive not belt driven but heaps of room all around the engine to help make a Fiat a cheap car to own and maintain.
 
#577 · (Edited)
Wife already looking for replacement car. Wants to just trade the 156 in ... I would prefer somebody from the AROCNZ buys it, but ...

And I have decided I will not be maintaining this car, but paying a local garage too. Should probably have done that with the 156, but would have been expensive
Pete
 
#578 ·
Pete, if the Mito is sold in NZ its worth a look. Popular car with the ladies and have been very reliable. Not really an alfa as we know it however at least you wont be subjected to driving around in some pussbox. The other car I considered before I bought the Mito was a 500x. If the wife doesn't like something like that it might be time to trade her in :ROFLMAO:
 
#579 ·
No my wife will do most of the selection. It will be Japanese, or Korean. I've always said that to own an Alfa Romeo you need a backup Japanese car. This is where I went wrong with the 156v6. If the 1750 was up and running it would not have been such an issue as she would have been the back up ...

So back to something that just goes, and more importantly you can get parts quickly for it. I fully understand our American Alfisti's frustration with their poor dealer support. We sell them here but the last 2 times I tried to contact the local one the phone was never answered and they never bothered to call me back when I left a message. Why would anybody buy a new one, when you have that to deal with?
Pete
 
#581 ·
My theory is that every car needs a backup - but I live out of town and have no public transport backup. My most unreliable car was a brand new Nissan Maxima (in 12 months I got to drive it for 5) and most rusty was a Nissan Skyline. The only advantage of a japanese car is that they will cope with deferred maintenance for longer. My assertion is that with regular maintenance a $3k 156 will be as reliable as a a $10k anything. Buy two 156s so you always have one running while the other is being maintained.

BUT: we are fighting perception not reality. When your Toyota Corolla breaks down you think "oh, how unusual". when your Alfa breaks down you think "not again!".
 
#582 ·
Yes all valid points.

I want to point out our 156v6 has been reliable, and yes if I paid to have it serviced I would be less frustrated with it, but it would recently have been stuck at the shop for a long time while parts took a week to arrive from overseas. And the garage would have been obliged to replace everything on the front of the engine while replacing the timing belt => expensive service. Overall because I serviced it, it has not cost a lot to run for the ~5 years I've had it.

I will be sad to see her go, and I really hope to sell it to an AROCNZ person or at least an enthusiast.

2 things have caused me to accept that it needs to go:
1. I've recently spent more time working on her than my 1750 GTV
2. The poor engineering. Now I look at parts of the car and just shake my head and think, "they really don't give a toss about the mechanic", and that really frustrates me because in some cases it would be so easily fixed.
A few simple examples:
A. Stop with using cap screws everywhere, just use normal bolts where you can, i.e. the timing belt tensioner would be much easier to remove and install, given the lack of access, if normal bolts were spec'ed
B. Relocate the air conditioning pipes so they go up and around the windscreen water bottle. Putting them so they reduce the already tight access to the cambelt is just being a *****
c. Relocate the power steering pump pipes so they do not have to be undone and pushed out of the way to replace the oil filter. Again, just being a *****
d. And for Pete's sake, whoever spec'ed that nut on the end of the crankshaft should hand in their engineering degree and clean toilets for the rest of their lives. Drill and tap the end of the crankshaft, and put an M10 bolt in there, done and done perfectly! The current design means that in most cases that nut will need to be replaced => wasting their customers $'s

We bought it because our son was ill, and I was not able to work at all on the GTV. Thankfully our son is doing extremely well now. I have enjoyed many drives, I love the driving experience of that engine, love the gear change, love the fact that you never even have to think about a corner or passing, and think it is a beautiful looking car, but it is time for an I don't have to worry or care car again
Pete
 
#583 ·
I thought about starting a new thread but I think anyone who is relevant to my irrelevant ramblings would already be following this one.
The MITO bought is a fantastic little car. Its not a alfa as we know it but somehow its every bit alfa.
The electronic steering is wonderfully weighted and responsive through the manual rack.
The seating position is low slung in the floor pan with all the controls adjustable.
The chassis is tight, to tight for some sub par suburban roads. Turns in sharp as a pin.
The tct transmission works well. Different DNA modes, its like driving a manual with the refinement of a auto. Doesn't like to be pottered around slowly but when driving briskly changes with a rewarding engagement.
The 1.4 engine performs more than enough for some fun, think slightly better than a good alfetta.
Build quality is good. Some trim parts need attention due to a caveman fitting an after market sat nav. The door trims are made from some cold hard plastic.
I bought a car cover for it a few days ago. I don't even bother with the GTA, maybe that's a reflection of how much I enjoy this car.
Reliability reviews are outstanding. If anyone ignores a MITO or indeed a Gulietta I have to say they are missing out on a simple pleasure of alfa life.
 
#584 ·
Glad you are enjoying it. We have bought a Nissan Qashqai/Dualis. We had one in Sydney and I liked it. My wife likes sitting up high and how it is softly sprung, and of course it is very quiet.

I will miss the 156v6, but will be glad to be able to focus on the 1750. If the 1750 was finished and running, I would have fought harder for the 156v6
Pete
 
#585 ·
I see Pete your V6 has appeared on TradeMe. Looks a good looking car with the Monza alloys rather than the Teledials mine has. That combination with the red paint suits it. However I don`t think you needed to put that it had been in a bad accident though if it isn`t obvious and the car is alright. The comment about the insurance company`s attitudes to Alfa Romeos also is something I would not have put. I think when you are selling you should always accentuate the positive and unless it is material or major or you are legally obliged to disclose anything wrong keep quiet.
Good luck with the sale.
 
#586 ·
TradeMe pops up saying it has been re-registered so I thought I'd just answer the logical question: why?

It really was a minor accident, hence my comment about insurance companies. Twas an easy fix they should have done. I know of a 2000GTV that was written off when a year or 2 old, that was repaired in one morning!
Pete
 
#589 ·
Pete...

As I look back, I can understand my own inner currents, and how they affected, or even created, the inflection points in my life.

The vast majority of people fear change. They will embrace lives of monotonous desperation rather than toss the mooring lines and push off the shore.

All of our ideas and dreams are good. Some just don't last as long. So.... become good at change. Shoot the crippled mare in the head, walk out of the barren desert into the nearest town, find a saloon, buy the first women you see a tall drink, and strike up a conversation.

$hit happens. Let it.
 
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