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Discussion Starter #101
"Him" (the listener) would be my father :)

Anyway I think I have found my issue. The left rear tyre is like a 30 sided shape. Could this have been caused by the car sitting for ages?, or heck I don't know but the tyre has many areas where it has gone through the outer layer like many flat spots??

Erik, Is this the "heal and toe" rear tyre wear you were referring to? What does "heal and toe" mean please?

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #102
The rear tyres are V speed rated, while the front are W rated.

Could this tyre issue be caused by the incorrect tyre speed rating as a 156v6 is supposed to run W rated tyres. Now I've only gone up to around 180km/h which should be okay for a V rated tyre, but ...

The only time I've ever seen a tyre tread surface deform before was because I'd gone too fast for the tyres. Admittedly the deformation was considerably worse.

Confused. They are Bridgestone tyres so should be good quality.
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #103
Photos of the offending tyre (sitting in the back of our Honda Odyssey). One photo shows the tread wear pattern, the other I hope you can see how out of round the tyre is.

Pete
 

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There's your problem I reckon!
 

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Discussion Starter #105
There's your problem I reckon!
Yes hope so.

I'm going to take the tyre to Bridgestone and ask them what the heck has happened and why? I have run Bridgestones many times and respect the brand, so this was not expected at all.
Pete
 

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"Him" (the listener) would be my father :)

Anyway I think I have found my issue. The left rear tyre is like a 30 sided shape. Could this have been caused by the car sitting for ages?, or heck I don't know but the tyre has many areas where it has gone through the outer layer like many flat spots??

Erik, Is this the "heal and toe" rear tyre wear you were referring to? What does "heal and toe" mean please?

Pete
Find the manufacturer date on your tyres (all of them)? If they are more than 5+ years old buy new.
Bridgestore tyres are normally regarded as quality tyres, but all tyres age as time goes.
The heel and toe deformation on the tread is quite normal on cross-grooved tyres. They are good for draining water from the road and last all right if the are shifted front to back every 6 months or so.
 

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Discussion Starter #107
Find the manufacturer date on your tyres (all of them)? If they are more than 5+ years old buy new.
Bridgestore tyres are normally regarded as quality tyres, but all tyres age as time goes.
The heel and toe deformation on the tread is quite normal on cross-grooved tyres. They are good for draining water from the road and last all right if the are shifted front to back every 6 months or so.
So the wear pattern I have on this tyre IS the "heel and toe" deformation of the tread that is quite normal but has got worse because the tyres have not been rotated?

I'm still trying to work out what "heel and toe" means as it is a new term to me. Thanks
Pete
 

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The picture shows extreme wear on one side of the tread, indicating a bad toe alignment. We could see this on the front tires of 164s with the original factory large negative toe alignment. Alfa later changed the front toe spec to basically zero to reduce the very rapid inside tread wear. Now we can get even wear across the tread.

I don't think it is the tire's fault, but a bad alignment causing weird lateral scuff wear patterns along with basic tread wear. I don't know if the rear suspension of this car has adjustable rear suspension. Maybe a bent suspension arm or worn bushings?

Maybe the effective rear suspension alignment is affected by a bad front suspension alignment, ie, the car running slightly sideways down the road due to front misalignment. You see that sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter #109 (Edited)
The picture shows extreme wear on one side of the tread, indicating a bad toe alignment.
But yes the wear is on the inside of the tread surface BUT it is not even wear. In patches, every 6 inches, the wear is extreme as the photos show. And remember the tyre is not round on the inside, but like a 20 (?) sided shape, surely if the toe alignment was wrong it would wear evenly.
We could see this on the front tires of 164s with the original factory large negative toe alignment. Alfa later changed the front toe spec to basically zero to reduce the very rapid inside tread wear. Now we can get even wear across the tread.
I would agree with this theory if the tread wear on the inside was even and consistent, but it isn't.
I don't think it is the tire's fault, but a bad alignment causing weird lateral scuff wear patterns along with basic tread wear. I don't know if the rear suspension of this car has adjustable rear suspension. Maybe a bent suspension arm or worn bushings?

Maybe the effective rear suspension alignment is affected by a bad front suspension alignment, ie, the car running slightly sideways down the road due to front misalignment. You see that sometimes.
Possibly but the car has had a 4 wheel wheel alignment just before I bought it. I guess I could get it checked.

I still don't understand the extreme worn patches every 6 inches ... it is like the tyre was once on the front and the ABS braked so hard it caused flat spots.
Pete
 

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So the wear pattern I have on this tyre IS the "heel and toe" deformation of the tread that is quite normal but has got worse because the tyres have not been rotated?

I'm still trying to work out what "heel and toe" means as it is a new term to me. Thanks
Pete
Hi Pete I'll try and explain "heel toe" .Picture in your minds eye the wheel going round as the front of the tyre touches the ground that we'll call the heel. Anything that touches the road after is the toe. As a result of this action the heel grabs the road and the toe feathers out. The grab pulls you along the road and the toe follows. Therefore the heel has a slightly rounded shape and the toe is feathered out . I hope I haven't got you more confused . LOL.
 

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"I would agree with this theory if the tread wear on the inside was even and consistent, but it isn't"

You can get both constant wear on the inside, such as you get from some toe out, but if the toe out is extreme, you can also get the lateral scuffing, causing in some cases, the uneven wear as the tire scuffs and releases at the frequency of the flexible tire as you drive down the road.

I think the alignment is way off.
 

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Discussion Starter #113 (Edited)
Well it would not be the first time a little NZ wheel alignment place has got it wrong (if they have?) but that was one of the selling points and confirmation that there was absolutely no chassis damage with the minor rear end accident it had, that the previous owner fixed. Alarm bells are now ringing a bit ... :eek:

Unfortunately I'm still new to Tauranga so finding a place that I feel comfortable with will probably require joining the Alfa club and asking ...
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Hi Pete I'll try and explain "heel toe" .Picture in your minds eye the wheel going round as the front of the tyre touches the ground that we'll call the heel. Anything that touches the road after is the toe. As a result of this action the heel grabs the road and the toe feathers out. The grab pulls you along the road and the toe follows. Therefore the heel has a slightly rounded shape and the toe is feathered out . I hope I haven't got you more confused . LOL.
Hmmm ... so if you do not change your tyres front to rear as you suggest every 5000km's what wear do you end up with?

I cannot see "normal" people who also occasionally buy Alfa Romeo's doing this so there must be lots of complaints about 156 (and FIAT models that use the same platform) premature tyre wear ... no??

I have done about 30,000 km's and never changed the tyres front to rear unfortunately :(.
Pete
 

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"minor rear end accident it had"

Ok, yes, alarm bells are now ringing. Not saying that bad alignment is 100% the problem, but given that there had been an accident previously, the odds are pretty high, as nothing else will wear a modern quality tire like you are seeing except a misalignment of the tire with the road. The significant factors may be bent suspension links, worn suspension bushings, or damaged shocks or struts, thus allowing the tire to bounce and repeatedly wear in patterns, driven by the lateral scuffing.

I had a set of Conti's years ago where one tire had this scalloping wear, finally resulting in steel wires showing in a couple of places and tread separation bumps. Alignment was way off, the shock was too soft, and I hadn't notice the rapid bad wear.
 

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Does the car have the JTS 17" spoked wheels on it? If it does, they might be bent. They do have a tendency to do that if hit hard. Bent ones are quite common.
 

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Discussion Starter #117
Does the car have the JTS 17" spoked wheels on it? If it does, they might be bent. They do have a tendency to do that if hit hard. Bent ones are quite common.
They are 17" spoked wheels, not sure if they are JTS or not, but I believe genuine to the car.

So yes time to measure everything and ensure all are straight and correct. Once this is confirmed it will get another 4 wheel wheel alignment.

Thanks
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #118
The 156s have a tendency to wear "heel and toe" on the rear tyres. Especially wide with rectangular tread pattern.
Therefore change front and rear wheels every 5-7000 km.
Erik,

I know you have explained "heel and toe" for me, thanks, but I am still trying to get to grips with this post of yours. The reason is that the other rear tyre, while no where near as bad, was wearing the same as the left rear and if left would have eventually got as bad.

As I have done around 30k on her and the previous owners had done over 100k is it possible that my tyre issue is simply because they have not changed front and rear wheels as you suggest every 5-7000 km's?
Pete
 

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My theory is that you either have dud tyres, bent wheels, or someone got the rear alignment wrong. Bridgestone are not immune to faults. They could have been a bad batch for some reason. As for the rotation, we have bought our last two sets of Pirellis from Kmart tyres and they do a free rotation and balance every 10,000km for the life of the tyres, so I wouldn't do it any more often than that. We got 53,000km out of the 245/40/19 Cinturato P1s on our 159 ti SW under that deal, so I think it helps with wear.
 

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Discussion Starter #120
Okay chucked the rear of the car up on jack stands and all looks straight and accident free. Boot floor is perfect, etc. Spun the left rear wheel and it runs dead true, but admittedly this was the left front wheel.

I can see how to adjust the toe-in/out, so as soon as practical I will book her in somewhere to get a 4 wheel alignment.

While I was under there, I removed the rear muffler section and cut and re-welded (arc) the rear exhaust hanger so the muffler does not hang low like a wet nappy. Always hated that, but now perfect. I think it hung lower because of the ugly plastic skirts it used to run, but I've removed that eye sore and now realigned the exhaust so it looks like a mechanic installed the exhaust instead of some pimply teenager :).

BTW if anybody wants to buy the rear plastic skirt, please PM me. It is a genuine Alfa Romeo part.
Pete
 
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