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Pete, its probably the hardest cam belt to do out of all the different ones I have done however practice makes perfect.
Couple of things that may help you.
The tensioner is bolted on with two 6mm allen key bolts. You will want a short allen key socket on a 3/8 ratchet. Not much room between those bolts and the body. Be a little careful the bolts are made from cheese. The top tensioner bolt is a PITA.
You will need to make a tool to set the tensioner. A long piece of square tubing with a t-piece at the end with something to engage the two holes on the tensioner.

The cambelt is JUST long enough to fit around everything before you tension it. Sometimes (mostly) You will find the belt half a tooth out on the crank making it impossible to slide onto the crank. If you have to, turn the crank back enough to slide the belt on and then turn it back, tightening the front side of the belt so all the slack is on the tensioner side ready to be tensioned.
With your camshaft holding tool you might find it hard to get the belt set around the pully's because everything is fixed solid. You may need to loosen it so you can move the cams a little. Start on the rear pully and work toward the front ending with the crank. Pushing a spanner between the belt/pully and the cam cover holds the belt down on the pully.

Line up the crank pully, the mark lines up to the water pump. TDC 1 or 4 it doesn't matter. Before you do anything at all mark all the cams relative to each other and relative to the engine. Remove the crank pully and mark the lower sprocket. I can't stress it enough. MARK EVERYTHING. If the cams turn you always have your reference marks.
The crank pully nut is always VFT.

That's all I can think of for now. Be patient because getting the belt wrapped around all the pully's with all the marks lined up can take much swearing in Italian.
Once you think you have it timed up, set the tension and rotate the engine, double check ect ect.
 

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Just mark everything up before you release the belt and remove - I use a white marker and always start on the rear exh cam wheel and pull hard to get the belt over the cam wheels. I use clothes pegs to keep the belt on the cam wheels and a rubber band to keep the belt on the crankshaft as I work my way around clockwise. The rubber band goes around the bottom of the belt to form a loop in the belt and tightened by pushing it down once over the crank pulley. Time consuming but not too bad once you`ve got access.
I`m actually not going to replace the tensioner as it is ok as are the idlers however I will repack with grease all bearings and just replace the belt itself and the waterpump.
 

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Discussion Starter #543
So it reads like setting the belt tension is not difficult. What is the little arrow on the tensioner for?

I am to believe I need to tension the tensioner to the point that its internal spring is active. Correct?
Pete
 

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Setting the belt tension is the final and easy part. I am not sure what you mean by internal spring active but I'm sure there are you tube videos.
When you set the tensioner you need to push rearward so the marks on the tensioner line up. Actually quite a bit of force relative to the little plastic tensioner.
Richards peg trick is spot on. Paper foldback clips also work, just depends on what works for you.

Richard please don't take this the wrong way. Never never reuse the tensioner in this application. It is a plastic piece of crap that is the most likely component to fail. Trust me, use a new tensioner.
 

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Discussion Starter #545
https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/how-to-2-5-3-0-3-2-cam-belt-guide.151859/ said:
Tension the belt. There is a small alloy indicator on the side of the tensioner, this needs to line up with the notch ...
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #546
Thanks guys!!

Pete
 
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Pete if you get stuck just ask. I would be happy to even have a chat on the phone. As I said the the 24V6 is a real challenge. You master this you can do any cambelt.
 

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Discussion Starter #548
I now need to source a 41mm socket, and make a tool to lock the crankshaft ... or stick a crowbar in the flywheel inspection opening, but rather make a tool and do this properly

I made a socket to turn the engine, but that will not be usable to undo a very F'ing tight nut
Pete
 

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I now need to source a 41mm socket, and make a tool to lock the crankshaft ... or stick a crowbar in the flywheel inspection opening, but rather make a tool and do this properly

I made a socket to turn the engine, but that will not be usable to undo a very F'ing tight nut
Pete
This is where air is king.
We had a 3/4 air gun, sometimes that struggled. I have had a few nuts that wouldn't move. Did the old drill a hole and crack them apart trick rather than heat them and cook the front of the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #550
I have air, but no air gun

Pete
 

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Okay my father has gone out and bought the socket and a massive power bar ... he is a legend.

My question is, how hard is it to drop the engine and gearbox on one of these things. The more I get involved with this job, the more I think "just rip the engine out and do it considerably easier on the floor"
Pete
 

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it is not as bad as you think Pete. it is just that you need special tools you perhaps haven`t got at the moment but once those are acquired its reasonably straight forward.
Re the crankshaft nut I`ve been pretty lucky in that I`ve never had a stuck one. I do use a rattle gun though, and whenever I reassemble I smear a little CopperCoat on the inside of the pulley so that it is easy to dismantle the next time. One of my mechanics when I had the workshop showed me the technique of thermal shock with the arc or mig welder whereby the subject item was just touched with the welder. This was 9 times out of 10 successful for stubborn rusted together parts and didn`t ruin any seals etc like you would with a longer period of heat such as with the oxy or propane torches.
Re the tensioner bearing alfettaparts2 you have me worried now. I`ve never had one of these plastic cum nylon bearing housings fail yet but I have seen on forums that it can happen.I suspect its not a common occurance though as the material is not pure plastic like the thermostat housing on a BMW for example. I will search my stocks of bearings then for an all steel version which I think I have. If I haven`t I`ll buy a bearing to fit in the tensioner.
 

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Discussion Starter #553
I have found that my timing belt tensioner is not correctly tensioned as it should be. I'm not saying this is the noise, but it is something that is wrong so glad I bought another tensioner. It might be the belts fault or the tensioner I guess

Pete
 

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I like to see the tensioner position with the engine running. Sometimes when you shut the engine off the tensioner will indicate its to loose or to tight. Turn by hand and check or check with engine running. Its normal for the tensioner to bounce around a little.

re: engine removal. They are pretty easy to remove because its just the reverse of the production assembly however you wouldn't do it just for the belt. You might if you where giving it a birthday and doing a clutch, rear main seal, exhaust headers gaskets etc. Ferrari are the only ones stupid enough to make engine removal necessary every three years.

Richard I don't think you can replace the bearing on the tensioner. You also have to consider that the tensioning device can fail. For the cost of the tensioner its just not worth messing around. If you manage to improve the tensioner I would be interested in your handy work.

While we are on tensioners. Set the belt tension slightly tight. I don't care what anyone says, the belt will stretch. And on the note, Pete when you fit the new belt you will find the rear cam marks you have made slightly out because the new belt is slightly shorter than the old one. The rear cam will look slightly retarded by about a quarter of a tooth.
 

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The tensioner bearing is held in place within the tensioner by a peened over pin. Simple to remove and replace by replacing the pin with a bolt or stainless pin. By tensioner failing I presume you are talking of spring failure. I have not encountered this aspect of failure within a tensioner yet. it has always been the bearing getting noisey or failing completely. I will examine carefully before I decide what to do with my tensioner however and make a judgement call.
I always remember a lesson I learnt in respect of the cambelts that all belts are not equal which relates to building a race motor and experimenting with valve spring tension. I used some very stiff springs which on the engine stand when I hand turned the engine stripped the teeth of the brand new belt. I then changed to a Gates belt (OE specced) and repeated the process which did the job without incident. That belt was retained and did the job for many hours of running under duress so to speak. My cambelts from then on have always been Gates, just to give that extra insurance.
I always run the engine immediately after doing the belt without the covers on (and after hand turning beforehand for initial check) There is usually some minor readjustment of belt tension required just to get it perfect.
 
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I always run the engine immediately after doing the belt without the covers on (and after hand turning beforehand for initial check) There is usually some minor readjustment of belt tension required just to get it perfect.
Exactly.

I ran a hire go kart workshop for ten years. The karts where belt driven. The was absolutely a difference in belt durability between brands.
The other strange factor was 100% if you washed the kart down with truck wash (ct18) the belt would fail within a week.
 

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Discussion Starter #557
alfavirusnz said:
I always remember a lesson I learnt in respect of the cambelts that all belts are not equal which relates to building a race motor and experimenting with valve spring tension. I used some very stiff springs which on the engine stand when I hand turned the engine stripped the teeth of the brand new belt.
Heck, that must have been a **** belt. Luckily I have never experienced that (yet).

My Sud race engine had very serious cams and as each camshaft only operated 4 valves, the stress on the timing belts was considerable, or felt considerable when turning the engine by hand. I suspect once the engine was running it was much easier
Pete
 

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That stripped belt was a name brand belt as well which was commonly used as a replacement. I took note from thereon that whenever a car (they were mainly Alfas and twincam Fiats & Lancias -the business was Italtune here in ChCh - now called The Italian Job) came in with a failed cambelt and wasn`t excessively over the change interval I would look at the belt and identify the brand. I don`t recall one Gates failed belt although that was in the era of 75 & GTV6`s, 164 and 155`s, Alfasuds & 33`s and lots of BM`s & Audis. !56`s were still experiencing their free servicing at the dealership although we had such a close relationship with the franchise then (Miles Continental) that we were told of any common isues and repair proceedure. None of the Alfas experienced belt, tensioner or idler problems when equipt with the OE parts and troubles happened when non OE parts seemed to be fitted , that includes water pumps by the way and we did see the odd car still with the original belt etc way over the recommended change interval after the first owner had sold, the car was passed down to 2nd or later owner. Those owner`s were either too cheap, or in some cases completely ignorant that cambelts needed replacement and didn`t last the lifetime of the car. You ought to have seen the look on their face when told how much it was going to be.
 

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Discussion Starter #559
alfavirusnz said:
You ought to have seen the look on their face when told how much it was going to be.
I can imagine. This job on my car was $5000 ... I only paid $5000 for the car and that was only 10k km's after that service :eek: :eek:

Pete
 

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Christ, you`re talking North Island prices. Nothing like that down here. Another thing that I have observed is that the standard of workmanship seems lower up there I`m afraid to say. We used to have people from all over NZ come to our workshop and I would say we did most of the GTV6`s, Lancia Themas, Tii BMW`s and early injected 911`s in NZ as well as many 105 Alfas. I was very proud of it.
 
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