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Discussion Starter #1
To be able to pull off the water pump on my 91' 164S do I have to remove the oil pump drive sprocket (the manual says you do) and do I have to remove the crankshaft pulley (the manual doesn't say I do)?
 

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There is a bolt hidden behind oil pump aux shaft pulley so you remove pulley to get at it and to clean up gasket area. Crank pulley does not have to come off.
 

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Hmmm. this sounds like the problem I _almost_ had on my son's '92 164S. What we did instead was to notice that if the frame holding the alternator were to be moved outward farther than it will go with the belt on, the water pump could move right (toward front of car) enough to clear the oil pump pulley at the left edge. We released the alternator bracket tiedown bolts, slackened the belt and removed it, then ran the alt. forward so the wpump would clear. No problem. You might find Steve's suggestion better, as I remember it is a pain to tension the alt. belt. i thought the bolt hidden behind the oil pump was accessible with a wrench. My memory may be at fault here.

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Do I have to take off the thermostat housing above the water pump before removing the pump? If I don’t take it off first I would have to pull the pump straight out from the block because of the two hoses behind it, but if I pull it straight out the bottom hits the crankshaft pulley.
 

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Pull the thermostat housing off. It disconnectes with four bolts from the top of the water pump. You might want to pull the top segment (three bolts) first. Best wishes for you. The middle piece is a junction box that holds the thermal sensors, as I recall.
 

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Weird, I did this whole thing the beginning of this year and I still don't remember taking out or putting in a bolt by the oil pump pulley :confused: I even had one of my bolts break off into the block and I figure i'll deal with that when time comes to pull the engine. Right now, it's doing fine and not a single leak.

Take the three bolts off the thermostat housing, remove that, then take out the 4(?) bolts where the temp gauge sensor and motronic ecu temp sensor are and remove that center piece. Then be very careful in taking off the waterpump bolts. I would use some sort of spray like liquid wrench to possible loosen up any stubborn bolts and spray that every few hours for a day or so. Then the next day, gently remove those. They will probably be rusty, so replace them if you can find a shop that specializes in odd sized bolts. Also, think about replacing the three long ones if they're in bad shape (also VERY hard to find and expensive).

Make sure to replace all of those gaskets. Since HOT coolant flows around them, they will break apart and leak if you use them again. So, make sure you get all those off before putthing the fresh gaskets in. You should need a total of about 3 or 4 gaskets to replace. I used this gasket sealer as well to prevent any leaking, though I will probably regret that when time comes to do it again. Also, I recommend replacing all of the hoses that are around that area AND a trick i used on getting them back on easily was taking my finger and putting some concentrated soap in or on the area it would have to slide onto/into, and it went in SOO much easier!! If you think your hoses are okay, I'd recommend you replace the two short hoses that go into the block.

Michael - you made it sound like you replaced the water pump without taking the timing belt off??? Or were you just talking about the oil pump pulley?

I hope my experiences will help you!!
 

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Well, I didn't mean to imply I worked around the timing belt. When we did my son's '92 S car, I thought we would have to remove something strange, as the rear-most bit of the water pump body was trapped behind the oil pump drive gear. Unpleasant feeling. I found the workaround with the alt mounting, and all was well. I don't remember this problem with my wife's '91 that my daughter now drives, nor with the '91 that my wofe now drives. Maybe the reason is that the alt. drive belt on the '92 is a bit shorter than that on the other cars? I don't know, and probably won't find out any time soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I got the oil pump pulley off. I took the 3 bolts out of the top thermostat housing and pulled that chamber off with the 2 hoses behind it attached. Then took out the 4 bolts from the chamber below that and got that off. Finally got all the bolts out of the water pump but couldn't pull it off because it was hitting the crankshaft pulley. After getting the crank pulley off, the pump just fell into my hands. None of the hardware gave me a hard time either. Now I just have make my shopping list. Anyone to add to this:

water pump
WP gasket
rectangle 4 bolt hole gasket above WP
two round 3 bolt hole T-stat gaskets
two short hoses behind T-stat housing
timing belt

OPTIONAL:
timing belt tensioner
serpentine belt tensioner bearing (already ordered)
valve cover gaskets
spark plug tube seals
6 intake tube hoses
 

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Alfa 164 12v parts list for doing timing belt and water pump

Here is 12v shopping list for doing timing belt/water pump:
Alfa 164 12v parts list for changing timing belt and water pump
Qty p/n nomen
1 60562106 timing belt 95120 Dayco
3 60610985 cam/aux seal for cam pulley/oil pump pulley
2 60507327 o-ring gasket for cam pulley hub early engine
If using new style mechanical tensioner
1 60588421 tensioner new style
1 60897506 stud (first install)
1 60897507 plug (first install)
If oil fed tensioner reused
1 60777065 tensioner kit oil fed
1 60513022 pulley bearing assy
Accessory drive parts
1 60571636 poly v serpentine 5070425 Dayco 425K7
1 60513907 idler brg pulley assy
If replacing just bearing in pulley
1 63004-2RS1 bearing SKF
Other belts
1 60513889 alt belt 5050273 Dayco
1 60512902 p/s belt 15310 Dayco
Water pump parts
1 60555347 water pump* 71713045 alt p/n
1 60777086 gasket w/p comes with pump
1 60808356 hose sleeve to rear head
1 60808355 hose sleeve to front head
1 60615713 gasket, metal lower to pump (better than paper one)
1 60507415 gasket, thermostat upper
1 60507416 gasket, thermostat mid housing
1 60559862 thermostat new style neoprene poppet
4 hose clamps for hoses to head
Valve cover parts
1 60512949 L/H VC gasket front head
1 60512948 R/H VC gasket rear head
6 60507294 gasket, SP well
6 60513180 gasket, int runner
6 60513179 sleeves, rubber for chrome tubes
 

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As far as the belts go, the Italian made are almost double the price, so Dayco like Steve says or most other brands will work as well, but if price is no issue, go all out Alfa!

Good luck.
 

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Steve-

Will the rear pulley hub come out of the head (while in the car) when removing the cam or replacing the seal? How do you remove/drive in the new seal with the head so close to the front clip?

If you losen the oil pump pulley; be sure and mark the hole that contains the alignment/drive pin before removing it. The second hole on the pulley will not fit properly and will bind when you try and fasten the pully to the pump drive.

The bolt for the oil pump pully can easily be removed/installed if you loosen it before removing the belt. Same goes for tightening this bolt; torque it down after installing the new belt.

You can more easily remove the entire WP/Thermostat housing if you cut the two short hoses that go to the head with a sharp knife. Just slice through them between the fittings and then remove the ends from the head and thermostat housing once it is removed from the engine.
 

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Alfa_corse if you have three piece cam pulley set up with o-ring you can remove rear pulley support from rear head I did it on mine but with later two piece unit I am not sure.

You need to build special close tolerance puller to pop rear pulley hub support off cam.

See my tools:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=15049&highlight=cam+puller

I would not torque oil pump aux pulley bolt using new belt. I use proper Alfa tool that fits both this pulley and cam pulleys.
 

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I would strongly recommend using the 24v timing belt idler pulley in place of the 12v accessory belt idler pulley, as it should last much longer being a double bearing, etc. Check out the following for directions:

www.lexingtonma.net/users/BobC/idler_pulley.php
 

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Alfa 164 12v parts list for changing timing belt and water pump

Here is 12v shopping list for doing timing belt/water pump:
Alfa 164 12v parts list for changing timing belt and water pump
Qty p/n nomen
1 60562106 timing belt 95120 Dayco
3 60610985 cam/aux seal for cam pulley/oil pump pulley
2 60507327 o-ring gasket for cam pulley hub early engine
If using new style mechanical tensioner
1 60588421 tensioner new style
1 60897506 stud (first install)
1 60897507 plug (first install)
If oil fed tensioner reused
1 60777065 tensioner kit oil fed
1 60513022 pulley bearing assy
Accessory drive parts
1 60571636 poly v serpentine 5070425 Dayco 425K7
1 60513907 idler brg pulley assy
If replacing just bearing in pulley
1 63004-2RS1 bearing SKF
Other belts
1 60513889 alt belt 5050273 Dayco
1 60512902 p/s belt 15310 Dayco
Water pump parts
1 60555347 water pump* 71713045 alt p/n
1 60777086 gasket w/p comes with pump
1 60808356 hose sleeve to rear head
1 60808355 hose sleeve to front head
1 60615713 gasket, metal lower to pump (better than paper one)
1 60507415 gasket, thermostat upper
1 60507416 gasket, thermostat mid housing
1 60559862 thermostat new style neoprene poppet
4 hose clamps for hoses to head
Valve cover parts
1 60512949 L/H VC gasket front head
1 60512948 R/H VC gasket rear head
6 60507294 gasket, SP well
6 60513180 gasket, int runner
6 60513179 sleeves, rubber for chrome tubes
Thought I would bring my shopping list up top again for your viewing pleasure.
 
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