[smestas]

This is being posted on behalf of forum member Mike Juneau

Hello Forum,

I am looking for information on how to convert a 66GTV
with under-the-floor pedals to a suspended pedal setup found in a 2-litter GTV, incorporating the brake master cylinder and servo in one. I have a nice 66GTV but am tired of the single circuit brakes and having to rebuild the under-the-floor master every several years. I know you could do a dual under-the-floor but do not want to futz with two remote boosters. Do you know of anyone who has done this job or has it been documented anywhere? Perhaps in the newsletter or a chapter letter? I have a donor 2-litter for parts, looks fairly easy as I do not mind welding. Please feel free to pass this inquiry on to anyone who can help. I would appreciate any help. Getting rid of the under floor setup would also allow me to use a better set of headers. I have already converted the front suspension to 2-litter as the 1600 rotors are impossible to find and the brakes are bigger.

Mike Juneau

 

[alfa_chan]

Any suggestion?

The firewall mounted brake is one of the reason I'm looking for a 69> GTV instead of a step nose (LSD is the other one)
I've been looking through the web and found nothing about this topic.

I was thinking of bolting a Tilton onto it (together with hydraulic clutch), would that be possible?

Thank you very much.

 

[Sniady]

totally do-able

I've seen this conversion done on race cars, hopefully italcarguy will see this post, he will help you.

 

[italcarguy]

hanging pedal conversion

to convert your pedals to the hanging type as in the 71 and up models you have to cut a hole in the firewall to enable the pedal to come in (they are one piece with the power booster). where you will mount the bolts to hold it all in place, you will need to re-enforce the firewall. some nice sheet metal works well. you are also going to have to convert your tranny's bell housing to the fully enclosed type as well as the throw out bearing. don't forget to install the hydraulic master cylinder down by the bell housing too. as for the old pedals, you can leave them in to trip people out or you can remove them and make a plate which bolts where the original pedals once were.

by doing this, you can also install late model headers with no problem. the floor pedals get in the way and you have to bend them, now the pedals are out of the way and you have all kinds of room down there.

 

[Velocewest]

don't forget to install the hydraulic master cylinder down by the bell housing too.

Anthony, not trying to nitpick your great advice, but I think you meant to say "slave cylinder". The clutch master cylinder mounts on a bracket attached to the brake vacuum canister.

 

[italcarguy]

OOPS!

Thanks for catching that one, don't wanna install that there! I need to start proof reading.

 

[papajam]

I have to ask the question, why convert in the first place? IMO, floor pedals are much more desirable than hanging pedals. Hangers just don't have the feel or feedback. To observe this, look under the hood at the m/c booster assy of, say, an early '70s 105 while someone hits the brakes. See the booster move? That's the firewall flexing in a car designed for hangers!! Floor pedals, OTOH, are bolted to the chassis which, hopefully, doesn't flex THAT much. Plus, although maybe it's just me, I've never been able to heel/toe properly, and comfortably for any length of time with hanging pedals while the adjustable pushrod and pedal stop on the floor pedals makes setting this up a breeze.
I'm not sure what "tired of the single circuit brakes" means but I'm currently converting my single circuit '68 1750 to tandem brakes for safety reasons using the booster for the front brakes only and leaving the rears unboosted. I could see being tired of having to rebuild the master every several years but why does it need rebuilding this often in the first place? Is the fluid being changed regularly? Does the reservoir cap have a crack in it? Somethings wrong here.
As far as headers go, any race or hotrod shop can make a set that will fit with the existing pedalbox. It just seems a shame to hack into the sheetmetal of 'a nice 66 GTV'.

 

[alfa_chan]

Re: Re: How to convert 66GTV pedals?

I have to ask the question, why convert in the first place?

Hmm... I'm just wondering... why does Alfa change it to the "firewall mounted" on a later model? So that it can be power boosted?

Is the floor mounted not power assisted, btw?

Thanks...

 

[67GTV]

Standing pedals . .

Besides the reasons mentioned above, I also prefer the feel of my standing pedals. My right foot would cramp up after long drives in my Spider. If GTV hanging pedals are layed out differently than Spiders, then nevermind.

My single boosted brakes work great. Solid pedal and great stopping power.

As for the exhaust, I'd just have a local muffler shop make the neccessary bends.

 

[Sniady]

How to convert from hanging to standing pedals?

I have a 2000 gtv, so I have the hanging pedals.

But if I had a option, it would definitly be from the floor up, I think they look so much cooler, and feel much better. That's on of the main reason's I want a step nose so bad.

Just wait a few more years, technology will go backwards, and new cars will start having floor up pedals.

 

[alfa_chan]

Re: How to convert from hanging to standing pedals?

[BJust wait a few more years, technology will go backwards, and new cars will start having floor up pedals. [/B]

Completely agree... especially with those brake-by-wire technology... it also frees up valuable space between the engine and the firewall (crucial for crash protection)
and the pedals and the steering wheel will move instead of your seat (fixed h-point)... tried that on a concept car, it's so cool...

 

[papajam]

Hmm... I'm just wondering... why does Alfa change it to the "firewall mounted" on a later model? So that it can be power boosted?

Is the floor mounted not power assisted, btw?

Thanks...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all 105s have brake boosters both floor and hanging pedal models, except maybe the TZs. I suspect that Alfa switched to the hanging pedals to more easily, and cheaply, provide vacuum assist on a tandem brake system while using only one booster.

 

[alfacupp]

hanging pedals

I have done this convertion to my Duetto vintage racer. I tied the supports into the under the dash rollbar. Wish I could say it works great but I haven't driven it for lace of an engine. In hind sight it would of been about as easy to install tilton pedals and they should work better and wouldn't get cooked by the exaust manifold.

 

[Mike Juneau]

Hi, get a dual circuit master, under-the-floor master, skip the bosters, marginal anyway and get the splitter for front and rear brakes off the 2L car, separate reservoirs are probably best too or possibly convert to the handing pedal set up. If you have the 2L firewall you can do it. The ubder the floor in any manner is a pain and a rebuild waiting to happen. If you do the dual circuit under there, imagine having to line up all the lines and piping to connect after you have taken it in and out like me you also may chage to the hanging pedals too. The old brake parts are alos a pain to find. I swithched over to the 2L hanging pedals because I plan on keeping the car and I also went to the larger 2L front calipers too. There is a good reason they discontinued the under the floor stuff, it sucked big time. good luck, mike J

 

[universible]

You're answering your own question?

 

[rogerspeed]

$.02 on pedals

I have to ask the question, why convert in the first place? ....

IMHO the most common conversion from floor pedals to hanging will be found on USA '69 models, the clutch m/c is difficult to get and the two boosters and undermount brake m/c are not cheap, so in that instance converting maybe seen as an economical. On earlier cars switching to hanging pedals makes the 2 liter motor swap easier and allows the use of the hydraulic clutch. One way or the other I don't have preference, if you have the single circut brakes make sure the m/c and flex lines are in very good condition. Driving my first Alfa, a '67GTjr, circa 1982, suffered a m/c failure on the Meadowbrook Parkway coming out of Jones Beach, late at night, luckily traffic was light and I wasn't in an emergency situation, managed to use the hand brake to get home to Oyster Bay, but it was a unnerving experience.

 

[101/105guy]

My $.02 worth:
1st series duettos have NO booster and work great. In fact, many 105 GTV, Guilia Super owners just disconnect the single booster if it fails with no ill effects.

On my '67 GTV, I installed a complete '69 pedal assy when car had 1750 eng/ trans/ brakes installed. Used single master cyl, single booster and 1750 rear pressure limit valve on rear brakes.Works great and the only non- correct item in the eng. bay is the clutch fluid jar.

 

[davbert]

Any suggestion?

The firewall mounted brake is one of the reason I'm looking for a 69> GTV instead of a step nose (LSD is the other one)
I've been looking through the web and found nothing about this topic.

I was thinking of bolting a Tilton onto it (together with hydraulic clutch), would that be possible?

Thank you very much.

Firewall mounted brake?? A 69gtv has floor mounted brake/clutch pedals same as step nose but with dual Brake MC's. Also, It doesnt come with LSD on the US spec models. ... at least mine doesnt.

cheers

davbert

 

[Andrew]

To me, the hanging pedals give a much more natural "swing" angle for your leg, especially on the clutch. Floor pedals kind of fight with your ankle and knee, especially if you're tall.

I think Alfa went to these pedals for a few reasons:
1. US legis required that they go to dual circuit brakes beginning 1968, and the floor pedal MC did not allow room for a single booster "upstream" from the MC, hence the dual "downstream" boosters. Moving the MC up gave room to put a single, much simple booster between the pedal and the MC, rather than between the MC and the calipers.
2. Servicing the floor MC is a pain, and it gets rusty and beat up down there. Moving it up in the engine compt made it a lot easier to deal with. It's probably a toss-up whether the floor or hanging MC gets hotter due to exhaust proximity.
3. Moving it up also made more exhaust, etc., room under the floor as Anthony mentioned.

There may also have been crashworthiness reasons for moving the pedal box out of the floor.

It's a big conversion job for a street vehicle.

Andrew Watry

 

[craeder]

My '66 GTV has hanging Tilton pedals

it's a racer. there is a rollbar horizontally just above the steering column. Fron this there are 2 bars that go horizontally forward to the reinforced firewall. Those bars has brackets welded to them with holes at 1 inch spacings sot he tilton assembly can be moved forward and backward to one's preference.