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Discussion Starter #1
Since I've already shared some of this info with the AlfaBB I've decided to do a thread on the building of our GTV6 24V conversion Lemons car.
Before people start in with you can't do a 24V conversion for $500 I'm here to tell you it can done. It REALLY helps to have a team member who owns a CNC machine shop who can weld.
A little history of where the parts came from. It started with buying a GTV6 that I found on Ebay that the owner had started to do a paint job on and then the car sat because he lost interest. We bought the GTV6 for $405. The engine came from a 164LS that was advertised here on the BB that wouldn't pass smog. After watching the car drop in price for about 9 months when it got down to $1200 I knew it was in my price range. We paid $800 for the LS. So to start with we were in the two cars $1205, A little over the $500 limit I know but I haven't started selling parts yet and boy did I sell parts, starting with the freshly rebuilt climate control LCD. We got $500 just for that, in the end we sold $2200 worth of parts and traded a bunch more. We sold a bunch of interior parts from the GTV6 and got that car down to zero also. In Lemons you can only get to $0 you can't go negative on the car cost. So we now had $500 we could spend to put the car together not including the safety stuff.
Warning this thread is going to bounce around a little now that the car has been running for two years. Last year when we finally got the car running it still had the stock 2.5 motor in it and we ran that all last year while we were working the bugs out of the car.
I'll start with what we are working on now and then go back and fill in other parts.
One of our problems has been the car eats front wheel bearings. Doesn't matter where they come from and how expensive they are they don't last. We repack them every race but with the camber we run they just don't last. Since brakes are a safety item you can spend as much on them as you want. At the Buttonwillow race this summer we got the brakes so hot that the Raybestos ST43 racing pads we run completely faded. Turns out that 1400* is the limit for those pads and we were over that. It was decided that we needed bigger brakes and a better wheel bearings also. I should mention that the great thing about this team is we all enjoy the racing but don't want to spend a lot of money if we don't have to, so we are pretty good at figuring out the frugal (read cheap) way of doing things and like to have the parts be easily replaceable. Enter our home made big brake kit. We are using a 2003 Ford Crown Vic front hub and rotor and putting a pair of Brembo calipers on them. We had to make a spacer to mount the hub to the stock spindle but all in all this was one of our easier modifications. We run 17" wheels on this car and we had already changed the bolt pattern to 5x100 because there are a lot more wheels with that bolt pattern than 5x98 plus we run ARP wheel studs and we have to machine the hubs to accept the new wheel studs so we went to a more common size. The wheels we run have a dual pattern in them, the other pattern is 5x114.3 which is Toyota, Lexus and Ford so we're using the stock Ford pattern on the front hubs and rotors. The hubs are about $50 each and have a nice big sealed bearing in them and the rotors are $29 each. Like I said, frugal. Tonight we assembled the brakes for the first time to make sure everything fit. I'll get a picture of the spacer when we take it back apart to do final assembly.
If there is anything you would like to know about let me know and I'll try to cover those parts first.
 

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How did you determine the Crown Vic hub and bearings would fit the alfa spindle? Also, are you running drop spindles (modified uprights) or is the car lowered by torsion bar method? -appreciated
-ToonR
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Crown Vic hub

The hubs don't just slide on. We had to machine an adapter to make them work.
 

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This looks interesting! :001_cool:
It's awesome when people show their work and what they've used to help make the car better/faster/more reliable/less expensive to run.

I am curious about those steering arms tho. They look rather bent but there are no obvious geometry changes to the upright???
 

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I wish I had seen info that you were having hub troubles earlier. The solution is getting the right grease. Huskey hi-temp 105 by the Husk-itt corp. 500degree drop point. no moly to cook out and grind up the bearing. available at Kaman Bearing $4-5.00 per tube.

Zig
 

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Very clever mod with the hubs.

16 to 18 hours of endurance racing will very likely damage the front wheel bearings no matter what synthetic racing grease you use. I use redline now and have also used Mobil 1.

These cars are cornering at over 1G of force continuously and threshold braking lap after lap. My rotors go blue almost immediately and my transaxle has exceeded 300 degrees Fahrenheit more than once, with the resultant roasting of bearings etc.

I am having to replace at least one of the front wheel bearings every other 24 hours of LeMons races. The stock bearings are perfectly adequate for street car usage. Not so much for the torture test that LeMons racing has become.

Greg
 

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Greg,

Since you are still running stock bearings, try the #105. It isn't synthetic, it just has a higher drop point than just about anything else that I've seen. That higher drop point means it will stay where you put it better. I'm an industrial mechanic and machinist, I have it running on a small steam turbine right now and the turbine is doing better now than it ever has. I had another spot where the regular moly disc brake grease that we tried (not a steam turbine) caused the thing to seize up after less than 30 seconds, the Hi-Temp 105 solved the problem.

The problem is the too small outer bearing and not everyone has the resources to re engineer the hub. Its great that Wes has shared on this, but I'm trying to help where I can.
 

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Oh, almost forgot. I use it on my GTV6 wheel bearings too because I was going thru them in street use. I haven't had a problem since.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wheel bearings and hubs

I wish I had seen info that you were having hub troubles earlier. The solution is getting the right grease. Huskey hi-temp 105 by the Husk-itt corp. 500degree drop point. no moly to cook out and grind up the bearing. available at Kaman Bearing $4-5.00 per tube.

Zig
Thanks for this info but we also wanted to go to bigger front brakes to even out with the rears. Since we run a 17" wheel we have plenty of room to run a larger rotor. Like I said be able to buy all the parts off the shelf makes life easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Pressure lubed transaxle

my transaxle has exceeded 300 degrees Fahrenheit more than once, with the resultant roasting of bearings etc.
Greg
We also have this problem and have turned the bushings the gears ride on a crispy black. If you look closely at the pinion shaft you'll see it has holes under 3rd and 4th gears. We have drilled the pinion shaft and now run the oil from the cooler back into the case where the speedo sensor was and through the pinion to lube the bushing for 1st thru 4th gears. We're hoping to test the car this weekend as our next race is a couple of weeks away.
 

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Where do you test? Sears point, Thunderhill?
 

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Are visitors welcome?
When? Saturday? Sunday? Both?
 

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We also have this problem and have turned the bushings the gears ride on a crispy black. If you look closely at the pinion shaft you'll see it has holes under 3rd and 4th gears. We have drilled the pinion shaft and now run the oil from the cooler back into the case where the speedo sensor was and through the pinion to lube the bushing for 1st thru 4th gears. We're hoping to test the car this weekend as our next race is a couple of weeks away.
I am very interested in this modification. Please follow up and let us know if this works and solves the problem.

Some of the aftermarket racing gear sets used needle or roller bearings in place of the bronze bushings (Bacci Romano) I wonder if this was why?

Also if the Alfa works race teams were experiencing this problem I wonder if they hit on the same solution. I have seen pictures of the transaxles with the built in pumps etc.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Visiters

Are visitors welcome?
When? Saturday? Sunday? Both?
I would think spectators are ok. The event is Sunday. We have a couple of things to finish on the car so I'm not positive we're going yet. I'll know this afternoon.
 
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