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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there community!

I encounter a very strange phenomenon, with my '72 1600 GT Junior.

1st thing: When I switch my lights on, I cannot switch between normal road lights and high beam lights (sorry not sure that this is the correct english/amerciacmn way to state it but I'm sure you understood)

2nd thing: When I switch my lights on, my horn begins lightly to sound "qwwweeeek":grin2:

I was told that this could be related to the light stalk/switch unit, which I will have to replace (already got a spare one, and a steering wheel puller)

Any other ideas of wher I will have to stat my investigatons? Your input and help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance

P.S. All Fuses have been checked and all connectors in the fuse box cleaned.

KR Thomas
 

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That's an unusual short, but I'd say the horn is grounding all the time to the steering column, then coming on when the light grounds it to the chassis, or something. The horn wire runs up the center of the steering column, shouldn't have any physical contact with the light switch, on the outside/side of the column, but something obviously making contact. Unhook the batter, remove the steering wheel, proceed slowly to see what's going on. The multiswitch has a lot of pieces and contacts, maybe something's loose/handing/broken.

Andrew
 

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Toli0815 said:
When I switch my lights on, I cannot switch between normal road lights and high beam lights
This one is fairly straightforward: it is something internal to the headlight & parking light switch located behind the steering wheel. Lots written here on the BB about the plusses and minuses of replacing the switch versus disassembling and rebuilding it, versus spraying in some contact cleaner and hoping for the best.

That's an unusual short, but I'd say the horn is grounding all the time to the steering column, then coming on when the light grounds it to the chassis, or something. The horn wire runs up the center of the steering column, shouldn't have any physical contact with the light switch, on the outside/side of the column, but something obviously making contact.
I had the same reaction when I read Toli0815's description; the horn and light wiring are pretty well separated. However, we do have one hint from Toli0815: the horn doesn't blow at full blast, it just goes "qwwweeeek". If the signal lead to the horn relay was shorting to ground (say inside the steering column), the horn would blow at full volume.

So Toli0815: What happens when you push the horn button at the center of the steering wheel? Does the horn blow at normal volume?

What happens of you disconnect the wire coming out of the base of the steering box that plugs onto the horn relay? With that disconnected, does the horn still go "gwwweeeek" when you turn on the lights?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Dear Andrew, & Alfajay,

Thanks to both for your reply.
@Alfajay: When you talk about the "Switch", do you mean the whole assembly with the light stalks and the indicator stalk? If yes I will simply replace the whole unit by the perfect looking one I have in spare. If it's a different switch unit you talk about, could you be so kind to precise me whre this is located (approx of course).
@Andrew: Well I'll switch off the Battery and have a thorough look on the whire. You could be right in saying the insulation is worn off or the kind. I will have a look once I pulled off the steering wheel (i fear a bit the woodruff key flying around in the car)

Anyway thanks for the moment and I'll keep you updated.

Kind regards

Thomas
 

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When you talk about the "Switch", do you mean the whole assembly with the light stalks and the indicator stalk? If yes I will simply replace the whole unit by the perfect looking one I have in spare.
Yes, I mean the whole assembly, including the two stalks for the headlights and turn signal, as shown below. If you have a spare on hand, then swapping switches and seeing if that solves the problem is a good strategy. New switches are quite expensive, so for someone without a spare on hand, repairing the old one can be the better option.



One other thought on this: I don't know exactly what failed inside your headlight switch, but a frequent cause of failure results from the high current these switches handle. The full current drawn by the headlights passes through the switch and they were not properly designed to carry that load. The contacts become pitted over time and the switches fail. Installing relays in the headlight circuits will extend the life of the switch. Many threads here on the BB discuss methods for installing light relays.
 

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I dont think there is a conecction with the qwueeeeeeeek and the horn. I think there is a faulty ' light reminder' whatchamacallit somewhere under the dash. You know one of those dollar store warning beepers that you have left your lights on. Iwould search for that first.....
 

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I dont think there is a conecction with the qwueeeeeeeek and the horn. I think there is a faulty ' light reminder' whatchamacallit somewhere under the dash.
I like that theory.

I'm still curious to learn from Toli0815 whether the horn sounds at full volume when the button on the steering wheel is pushed.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hello Everybody!
@Berlinista: Good hint but... sorry no it's definitively not a warning buzzer of any sort related to light remaining switched on, i positively know that my car does not have that sort of luxurious thingy
@Alfajay: the horn is perfectly working when I press the horn button on my wheel, when i switch the lights on then I only have a very low and weak "Qweeeeeek" (not the "TUUUUUUT" on full)

the funny thing is that if the lights are turned off and that I press the flasher stalk to flash my lights... then NO "qweeeek" coming from the horn

Kind regards

Thomas
 

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I don't get it. Horn: Has a relay under the hood. Three wires. One red, full current, from fuse box. One purple, to double purple to horns. One black. Earth wire coming through steering column. Goes to relay. Push horn button- create earth-horn beeps.

So the absolute ONLY place where there COULD be a connection is NOT in the light switch but in the fuse box, where another fat red wire gives power to the collumn stalk switches. I do not recall if this is from the same fuse connection. So, unplug the red one from the horn relay. What happens then?

And you are sure a PO did not Hobby Bob a light reminder somewhere under the dash , almost invisibly, or behind the fuse box?
Rik
 

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the horn is perfectly working when I press the horn button on my wheel, when i switch the lights on then I only have a very low and weak "Qweeeeeek" (not the "TUUUUUUT" on full)

the funny thing is that if the lights are turned off and that I press the flasher stalk to flash my lights... then NO "qweeeek" coming from the horn
Well, as Berlinista wrote above, this is an odd one! But you have given us a couple of clues:

When you push in the light stalk, only the headlights are powered. When you twist the stalk, you turn on both the parking lights and the headlights. So if pushing doesn't make that "Qweeeeeek", then it suggests that the interaction is between the parking lights and the horn.

If the horn sounds at full volume when you push the button on the steering wheel, then we know the relay + horns are working OK. That suggests to me that when you hear the "Qweeeeeek" sound, the horns are not getting powered through the relay, because if they were, they would be at full volume.

You are going to need to disconnect wires and inspect grounds to find the issue. I would focus on the front parking lights. Often strange problems like this are caused by bad ground connections: one of the parking light bulbs may be sending current through one of the horns if they share a ground connection that isn't making contact with the chassis.

Do your horns have two connections or one? That is, are they grounded by the stud that attaches them to the car's chassis (and have just one wire that goes to the relay delivering +12v) or do they have two connections (one wire to ground and a second wire to the relay)? If they just have one connection, I'm stuck again. But if they have two, where does the ground wire attach? Any chance it shares a ground with one of the parking lights?

Are both horns making the "Qweeeeeek", or just one? Again, by unhooking wires you can diagnose this.

Do you get any sound when you use the L or R turn signals?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi Alfajay, Hi Berlinista,

Sorry I couldnt answer sooner. First of all let me really thank you for your kind support and all the imput & suggestions you provide me with for helping me to ind a solution.

What i can tell you so far is that its definitively a short of somekind. Why that, because this week-end for 2x minutes it was functionning as it should. Meaning that 1) I was able to swith between High Beam and normal street light, and 2) There wasn't any "qweeek" coming from the horn when the lights were on and 3) a healthy, "tuuuut" when presing the horn button on the steering wheel..... well but it lasted only 5 minutes and when I switched of the lights and switched them on again... it all started from the begining.... "qweeeek" again.

I havent tested to unplug the wires from the hon from now, but will for sure.

When I use the L or R turn signals and the lights are on it still "qweeeeks"

Well I think I have definitively to change my Light switch combo. And look from there.

Kind regards

Toli0815
 

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this week-end for 2x minutes it was functioning as it should. Meaning that 1) I was able to swith between High Beam and normal street light, and 2) There wasn't any "qweeek" coming from the horn when the lights were on
It isn't surprising that a worn switch would work for awhile and then fail again.

But are saying that the horn "qweeeeks" went away while the switch was working? That is really strange! I was convinced that you had two separate problems: a failing light switch and something to do with the horn wiring. But maybe they are related.

Your next step could be to replace the light switch and see if the "qweeeeks" symptom stops. But if it does go away, I sure can't explain what caused it!

When I use the L or R turn signals and the lights are on it still "qweeeeks"
My question was whether it still "qweeeeks" when you use the L or R turn signals and the lights are off. My theory is that the ground from one of the parking light / turn signal assemblies is hooked to the same lug as the ground to the horn.

But the first question is whether your horns have two wires going into them (like the ones in the picture below) - if they have just one wire, then forget this theory.



I am also curious whether the horn "qweeeeks" when just the parking lights - not the headlights - are turned on.
 

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Toli0815 will owe Jay a beer if he figures this one out!
 

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Toli0815 will owe Jay a beer if he figures this one out!
I think that beer is safe. I'm stumped!

I just realized that even if current through the parking lights is feeding current through the horn ground (typical when two components are grounded to a resistive ground connection), there would be no path to ground from the "+" side of the horns; they should just connect to open contacts in the horn relay.

My guess is that he will swap out his headlight switch, the "queeek" noise will magically go away, and we'll never know what caused it.

But part of me wants to throw a multimeter into my suitcase, hop a plane to where ever Toli0815 lives, and spend a few minutes checking out that "queeek" ! Wanna come?
 

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But part of me wants to throw a multimeter into my suitcase, hop a plane to where ever Toli0815 lives, and spend a few minutes checking out that "queeek" ! Wanna come?
Where does he live?

It is easy to blame problems like this on creative wiring but I cannot think of anything else. There appears to be some current flow between the light circuit and the downstream side of the horn relay, if it is wired as it should be.
 

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Here's an idea: The return spring for the turn signals, that wraps around the steering column shaft, may be broken, and fouling the electrical contacts of the column switch, leading some current where it shouldn't go...

(I am guessing Thomas is from the German-speaking part of EU ?)

Fingers crossed...
/Neil
 

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Discussion Starter #20
@eedneco!

Good guess ! Yes I do actually speak german (mother tongue is french and english only used at work)... you're right (or is my english that bad? :eek:))
as for yopur idea with the spring... nope my turn signal stalk returns where it should when i blink.... without spring it wouldn't come back and...yes as Berlinista stated it would smoke (not cool at all in fact)

Well, gents I will go the route of 1) Taking off my steering wheel 2) replace the switch unit 3) Check the groundings to the parking lights and horn and hope to have this solved....

KR from Switzerland (french speaking part of it actually)

Thomas (toli0815)
 
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