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Jim

Do you intend to ever give a direct response to my question about the Mueller report, thereby meeting your claimed commitment to clarity?

Do you believe the office of the Presidency is above the law? That he has no Constitutional responsibilities to Congress or the Court(s)?

Do you believe it is OK to accept help in an election from a foreign government, as DJT has said he would do?

Just seeking clarity here.
 

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Discussion Starter #182
As I told my daughter when she was 20, don't react to everything you hear. Wait for more information. I've see so many false 'emergencies' over the years, I take a critical look at most of what passes as news'. These are actual statistics from our government. View attachment 1633175
I wish you hadn't used a race related example to make this point ...

Pete
 

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Well, a significant majority of Americans have come to recognize that "facts" from the Trump administration rarely are factual.

I often get right-wing "memes" from a good friend and WW2 vet. The ones that start out "all of these are TRUE FACTS so you don't need to fact check them" are inevitably made-up hog wash that, at best, are off-the-rails "spin", but as often as not are outright lies. Whenever I take the time to chase down the origin, they generally lead to some source that you wouldn't allow on your yard, let alone in your house, ie Hannity, Jones, or worse.
 

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I wish you hadn't used a race related example to make this point ...

Pete
Pete,

We can instantly infer that the non-academic picture shown is from a source intending to make it appear as bad as possible for non-white races. If this was a simple study seeking an unbiased report, we would also have info for white-on-white, black-on-black, etc, plus a full description of what sort of crimes are included, by what age and sex group, and within what economic strata, among other related variables.

Back in the early 2000s I took a University of Texas course called "the economics of crime". One of the studies presented (which I've not gone back and restudied for updates) was a correlation study seeking to identify significance of a number of variables. The question was "what variables, if any, indicate a correlation to a young male being caught up in the legal system".

The variables were race, economics, education, and several more (time fades memory). Of all of the variables studied, only one was determined to be statistically significant. "Did the young male grow up in a home with no adult male presence". It didn't have to be the biological father, just any male.

In other words, race had zero statistical relevance in whether a young male got dinged by the cops.

The problem with statistics is two-fold. The stats themselves don't lie, and humans are very bad at understanding such studies.

Stats CAN confuse if the study is poorly constructed. "When did you stop beating your wife" is not a valid question.

In the pictorial report shown, these are just absolute values. Even assuming the numbers themselves are accurate (a big assumption I suspect) the real story is not shown. Here is an example to clarify the thinking.

We have an island. It has 10 people on it. Nine are white and one is black. After the study is over we find that the black committed three crimes on whites, and the white committed two crimes on blacks. Do these numbers tell us anything? Well, it may be that there were two whites who ganged up on one black, and the one black was defending himself from this attack but got charged anyway.

Jim's picture is intended to persuade, not inform. I will go on to say that it is intended to persuade those whose intelligence does not lead them to study statistics as a science, or to research the available data that covers all of the relevant elements.

Ignorance is a choice.
 

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We don't yet know all about the Mueller report. It hasn't been released to public scrutiny. You know, that "by the people" sort of stuff.

Jim, if you're going to just taunt without responding, I'd say your posts are irrelevant to the discussion. You're more just a troll at this point, and that's not something I'd want good people to aspire to. It has all the credulity and character of a drunk trying to pick a fight in a bar.

The subject of "are we doing OK in America" is a legit subject. If one wishes to participate. You seem to be following the "ANTIFA" playbook at this point (if they had one, or even existed) of simply creating noise and chaos with no constructive goal.
 

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Discussion Starter #188 (Edited)
It's just the facts......Facts shouldn't scare anyone.
That diagram is racist (actually that "whites" are of course so much better than others), and needs fact checking to prove it's actually not. You didn't have to use that one, is all I am saying to make your point about reporting

Things like poverty, family life, upbringing, education and so on make the difference, not skin colour
Pete
 

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I actually like Jim. I just wish he'd help all of us with some real conversation. And that, by the way, is how I actually feel. I'd like to understand the Trumpista mentality in a way that it made sense. I believe that ALL sides of the ideological spectrum are necessary for a healthy society. We'd absolutely blow up if either the far left or far right gained complete control. We keep each other from destroying a reasonably good idea for a nation.

So - why can't, or won't Trump followers put forward discussion that makes any sense? I promise, that is a sincere question I'd like to work through.

And please, no replies like "because libtards can't understand the brilliance of Donald Trump's plan".

Discuss to learn and understand, not to insult and divide.
 
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