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Ladies and Gents, ive found a 1991 164S black on tan with approx 95kmiles on it being sold by a local alfa mechanic. The timing belt, water pump, tensioner, clutch have all been replaced. The shocks are from an L and the stepper gears and AC work, all electrical components work aswell.

The body is good but not great, some bubble at the front hood and near the wheel arches, underneath its ok, solid but some of the rear arms look rusty, engine turns great, no smoke, dosnt overheat.

I got him to bring it down to 3000$canadian, is that a fair price considering the condition?
 

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I kinda don't think so. The mileage is attractive, but the general condition is questionable, such as the rust in the wheel wells. The hood could be fixed or replaced, but the wheel well stuff is a bit more tricky to fix properly, and usually that rust comes from the inside. The fact that it has L shocks is no big deal, as you could always buy a Koni set (about $800) and put them on. They work as well as the OEM electroshocks if set to about 2/3-3/4 stiff, no more. But, the electroshocks, if they work, are part of the increased value of the S in my book, the "sport" setting is really worth it, don't run my 91S on anything else.

At 95k miles, it shouldn't have needed a new clutch, nor should the electroshocks have crapped out so soon. I still have the original clutch and electroshocks in my 91S, and they work well. Keep in mind, though, that at 95k miles, the heater core is closing in on it's failure date.

I would have him throw in several hundred toward the koni's. Then it would be ok. Yup, I would definitely go for the koni's if I bought the car, the L shocks just don't do it.
 

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~$2800 for a fixer upper S? Sounds good to me. Go for it. See if you can get it down to $2500.
 

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Del, where were you today? I went down to Les Ingram tech session...It was great. I picked up lots of good tips.

I've lived in Montreal and Cheyenne, WY and Florida and Pacific North West. I've owned and worked on cars that spent their whole life on salty winter roads. This 164S doesn't sound any worse than any other 16 year old Montreal car, in fact it sounds a lot better than most. Can$3000 would be about, what...US$2500? Not bad.

Get it cleaned up underneath and undercoated.

When in university in Fredericton, I had a 1959 Mercedes 220S that was rusted so bad the passenger door fell off. I had to fabricate a bracket and weld it to the frame to hold the lower door hinge. The door post was completely rusted off the body. The trunk and floors were full of holes, sealed with burlap bags and roofing cement. Ahhh...those were the good old day.
 

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Lived in DC for a couple of years, saw my share of rusted out car of all kinds. I don't touch them, and when I hear of rust bubbles I run away. Had a 75 Alfetta sedan from new that rusted away before my very eyes in DC all around the shock and suspension attach points. It became a dangerous car in my opinion.

Just my feeling, others may/can/will disagree.

Household chores today, I'm afraid. Preparing for a new kitchen.
 

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i am not sure if i would touch it either seems kind of high and i agree about the shocks. If you really want one look for a southern car i know you might have to drive or have it delivered but alot better deal. I bought my 92l for $1800 and everything worked on it except the cruise. and still have only had to replace the starter. oh and it now has 216,000 miles on it. sounds like that one could be a good parts car but not for that kind of money.
 

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Parts car?? Rust?? What are y'all talking about?? Are the holes so big I could put my fist through? He's not looking for a perfect vehicle...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
definately no holes, a bit of bubbling where i have mentioned before, the undercarriage is ok, the rear arm links are rusty. I might bring him down to 2500$
 

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GA boys aren't used to rust. This isn't a parts car.

Of course, the other option is to get a non salt area US car and import it. How old does it have to be to import to Canada. Car that haven't seen salt are SO much nicer to work on.
 

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After having grown up in Ohio and doing more than my share of rust repair work and dealing with rusted bolts and now living in the south, I will never touch another northern rust bucket again. They are well worth the drive to the south. I bought a '68 Mustang in Chattanooga years ago for $600 and took it to Ohio It was a pleasure to work on and restore. I ended up driving it to college in Florida and putting many miles on it. Folks in Ohio were falling over each other trying to buy that thing from me when I went to sell it. The car was never rust proofed and never needed it. You should have seen how happy the fellows at the alignment shop were when I told "don't worry this is a southern car" they had it done in no time and were relieved they did even have to break out the torch and fight a single rusted bolt. You can actually unbolt an exhaust system in the south, absolutely impossible in the North. :D But I probably don't have to tell you that.
Charles
 

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As a 164 buying and selling expert (well I like think so) the price sounds good. The 164 cars go for good coin in Canada. I have not seen many bellow $3k. So I say do your best to get it for little as possible point out that you want to put the stock S shocks back on the car and they are costly even used!


My 2 cents.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thanx guys for your time, i will bring it to my own mechanic and lift the car and see how it looks and then make my decision.
 

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As a 164 buying and selling expert (well I like think so) the price sounds good. The 164 cars go for good coin in Canada. I have not seen many bellow $3k. So I say do your best to get it for little as possible point out that you want to put the stock S shocks back on the car and they are costly even used!


My 2 cents.:)

but arent the 164S shocks prone to fail, wouldnt a pair of L shocks be more dependable, and is the ride that much different?
 

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Yes and no the 164 S shocks are way better then the L shocks. They do fail but when replaced should be good for another 90k. I had an S where the guy who sold it to me replaced the shocks with new S shocks and were one of the best features of the car. Does the seller have the old shocks?
 

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Honestly, dave, the L shocks will work just fine for you and like others have said, you could go the Koni route if you find the L shocks too soft.
 

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Nah, LOL, the L shocks will not enhance the S chassis or engine. The response of the engine will overpower the L shocks. Get the Koni's. Many people are just too used to the Buick soft ride of American or Japanese cars, imho. Alfa drivers don't seem to be like they used to be.

The S shocks are not prone to failure at all. Like all shocks there is a chance of a seal leaking, but that's not fatal for many many miles; however, they are as reliable as a regular shock otherwise.
 

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Del, I don't think you understood what I meant. If you weren't directing towards me, disregard. The L shocks will work on the S just fine, but you will lose some handling capabilities. I don't think the almighty power of the "S" engine will overpower the L struts as the cars weigh pretty much the same.

On the contrary, I drove an 02 Taurus and the stock setup setup is pretty stiff and it handles well. I drove a 2007 Crown Vic P71 and it handled really nicely for a large car.
 

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Yup, I kinda figured that you did mean that the L shocks would fit, and function. No problem there, but I have driven 164's before and after installation of Konis and I don't think there is much of a comparison. Well, that's what I think anyway. Others may/can/will disagree.

My cousin has a Crown Vic, and it is a really floaty thing. Wouldn't like it except for some freeway cruising. Maybe the newer ones are better. My old man was GM guy, and his cars were always awful.
 
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