Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
some questions for Details.....

Hi, i´m thinking that here are some specialists of thi topic.

At the moment i´m busy by reading some stuff about the history of "Autodelta".

Following stuff won´t be clear:

The Giulia TZ 2 was the first race-car which was equipped with the TS - Double Ignition Engine and mounted by Autodelta. According to the literature sources this happend at the end of 1964.
Was the engine just built and planed for the GTA ?
When the GTA engine was designed and built at first ???

Second, i read about TS - engines - designed by CONRERO, used by private teams like jolly club in a Giulia TI Super, just in the year 1963.

Could that mean, that Conrero was quicker and earlier than Alfa by designing a TS - Head or engine ???

Thanks for helping !

ciao
martin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
883 Posts
Conrero used to build double ignition head for Alfa engines, starting with 1900-derived, thus well before 1963.

Others also did. this thread especially on page 2, should have you learning more.

The Alfa twin plug head has angled plugs unlike most others I know of. It was indeed designed for the GTA, which was presented in 1965. I have not been precisely checking the dates in order to state whether the TZ2 used TS heads early in the season - it seems probable - and thus raced with TS engine before the GTA was introduced a few months later. The TZ2 #104 (probably, but it could be #112) was tested during the 1964-65 winter, but the time out was for the Le Mans practice on April 10th 1965 and the first race entry on 25th same month at the Monza 1000 km. I have a period article showing the engine at the LM practice, checking there should confirm if the TS head was already fitted.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,139 Posts
I would recommed this book if you don't already have it..Libreria d'Autombile is remaindering it for 62 Euros, but you might be able to find it cheaper on e-bay..

CARLO CHITI: SINFONIA RUGGENTE
Author: O. Orefici


This book traces the profile of one of the most important designers of sports engines. Carlo Chiti worked at Portello, at Maranello , at Settimo Milanese: all of them names which recall the glorious story of Alfa Romeo, the myth of Ferrari, and the stunning return of Alfa to racetrack under the Autodelta label.

Text: Italian/English
Binding: Hardbound
Pages: 206
Size: cms. 27x27
COL Pictures: 48
B/W Pictures: 150
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,211 Posts
"It was indeed designed for the GTA"
Are you fully certain GTV 2000??
My impression was that it was at hand and came earlier than the GTA, and it was used in TZ and TI Super before the GTA, not only as test
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Conrero used to build double ignition head for Alfa engines, starting with 1900-derived, thus well before 1963.

Others also did. this thread especially on page 2, should have you learning more.

The Alfa twin plug head has angled plugs unlike most others I know of. It was indeed designed for the GTA, which was presented in 1965. I have not been precisely checking the dates in order to state whether the TZ2 used TS heads early in the season - it seems probable - and thus raced with TS engine before the GTA was introduced a few months later. The TZ2 #104 (probably, but it could be #112) was tested during the 1964-65 winter, but the time out was for the Le Mans practice on April 10th 1965 and the first race entry on 25th same month at the Monza 1000 km. I have a period article showing the engine at the LM practice, checking there should confirm if the TS head was already fitted.
thanks for clearing up..........

Sum up, the TS Heads of conrero and others were developed totally independent of Alfa......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I would recommed this book if you don't already have it..Libreria d'Autombile is remaindering it for 62 Euros, but you might be able to find it cheaper on e-bay..

CARLO CHITI: SINFONIA RUGGENTE
Author: O. Orefici


This book traces the profile of one of the most important designers of sports engines. Carlo Chiti worked at Portello, at Maranello , at Settimo Milanese: all of them names which recall the glorious story of Alfa Romeo, the myth of Ferrari, and the stunning return of Alfa to racetrack under the Autodelta label.

Text: Italian/English
Binding: Hardbound
Pages: 206
Size: cms. 27x27
COL Pictures: 48
B/W Pictures: 150
Thanks for advice, have a look for this book urgently......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Engine #105.10. (152):

The Research Departement of Alfa was developing, about 1962, the prototype of a 1300cc engine that was intended for the 105.10, the TZ 1300. The engine had the classic block of the Giulietta with ist shape and dimensions.
It was substantly different, however, in ist technical innovations, which classified it as an engine destined to give a high performance. It had a “Hirt-type” drive shaft derived from an aeronautical with roller bearings, the caylinder Head had twin ignition with slanted spark plugs positioned near the combustion chamber between two very large valves....THIS idea was later adopted by Alfa for the 1965 GTA.
Further it had a dry sump, a solution that taken up again in the TZ 2, and it was inclined at an angle of 17° like the definitive TZ:
The 105.10 engine was abandoned and exists today as a prototype.

Source: Gianni Chizzola – Autodelta
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you agree and confirm that this could be the “Birth” af the GTA -Engine ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Do you know if the engine is a "one-off" and where it is today? It would be very cool to buy it an install it in an SZ or SZ longtail....
yes, i think it shall be. one example remains and was consigned from Bruno Bonini to Vito Vitting da Prato, for saving it and for entry in Alfa Romeo Registry.....this was at the end of the´80s.
Wherever this engine today will be, don´t think its for purchase....;)
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top