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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I started because I'm painting the car, so I took off the air vent cover under the windscreen so I could get to some rust under it and then I saw the wiper motor and remebered I had problems.

Now it is sitting in my lounge room and I'm not sure what to do with it.

Symptoms:
1. I've had the car (a 1968 series 1 1750 GTV) for about a year and only ever had one wiper speed. That speed is a bit slower than painfully slow.

2. The speed gets slower when you are at idle until it stops. This has become worse the longer I've had it.

3. The wipers park at the straight up position (don't always self park) and not at the bottom of the screen. Sometimes if I leave them at the bottom of the screen they will decide they don't like it and park themselves at the sides for me. (My car is smarter than me!)

The motor:
The connections on the motor itself look horrible but I can't work out what they are supposed to be. It looks like the three have been joined to be the two. Is that right?

For the wiring:
From the motor end the white wire is disconnected and folded back on itself.
From the fuse end the blue/black wire is disconnected and folded back on itself.

It's obviously been hacked by the previous owner so how do I get it back to normal with 2 speeds and a correct park? Do you have photos of how it should look?

Thanks
 

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Trained (ex)Professional, , 1953-2018 RIP,
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Sounds like the entire wiper transmission assemble needs to be disassembled and lubricated. This would include taking the motor apart to inspect brushes, commutator, bearings, etc. A wiring description can be found here. Be aware that the colors given refer to the wires on the motor and not the car harness wires.
The most probable cause for the wipers parking in the vertical position is the position of the wiper transmission drive arm being installed 180 degrees off. Looking for a pic...
 

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Wiper arm parking vertically

Yea, the second picture that Papajam posted shows what is probably the offending part - that arm the arrow points to is attached to the shaft that comes out of the transmission with a splined taper. There are perhaps 20 splines on the shaft that mate with splines in the hole in the arm, so there are 19 wrong ways to assemble this.

I could attempt to describe verbally how to do it, but the best solution is to just study the assembly on your workbench, and figure it out. Run the motor/transmission until it parks, and attach the arm so that it is pushing/pulling the outer arms (the ones that actuate the wiper arms) to an extreme position (fully down - NOT fully up).

Wow, your wiring really is buggered up! Basicly, one of the wires to the wiper is hot all the time - that one ensures that the motor parks after the switch is shut off. Another wire is energized when the switch is in the high speed position. All three will be hot when the switch is in the low speed position. You can't blow anything hooking these up by trial-and-error (unless you ground one), so just experiment. Be careful not to get your fingers pinched by the moving mechanism!

Motor running slowly probably means that it needs new brushes and/or the oil in the transmission has dried up, and turned to the consistency of concrete.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks,

Looks like I've got a bit of work and experimenting ahead. At least now I know what I'm looking for.

Andrew
 

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Hi Andrew,

I've had similar wiper motor saga's to yours in the past.
I was told by an Alfa engineer here in Bris that it's possible to replace the original 105 wiper motor with a unit from a AlfaSud.

Given that the local Alfa wrecker was trying to charge me $350 for a second hand (not rebuilt!) 105 wiper motor, I was tempted to do this.

The only reason I didn't go down this path was because I stumbled across a secondhand 105 wiper motor from another source for $20, so it was an easy fix in the end.

Aside from availability and cost, I'm told the big advantage of the Sud wiper motor is that it actually moves the wipers across the screen at a decent pace, in contrast to the geriatric speeds produced the by 105 wiper motors.
I guess there'd be a little additional wiring required to fit it, but it'd all be easily achievable I think.

Cheers,

-Col-
 

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Colin P. had written: "I was told by an Alfa engineer here in Bris that it's possible to replace the original 105 wiper motor with a unit from a AlfaSud."

I am not disputing this - however, be aware that a different wiper motor (or at least the gearbox portion of the motor assembly) was used between the early and late 105's. Those with wipers that move in opposite directions vs. those with wipers that move in parallel directions have a different angles between the motor armature axis and the mounting plane formed by the 3 bolts that go into the gearbox.

So, I'm saying that an Alfasud motor might fit a '73 Alfa, but not a '68. Or visa-versa - we don't see a lot of Alfasuds here in the States! I do know that a wiper motor & gearbox out of a mid-70's spider would not fit into my '65 Sprint GT.
 

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Hi Jay,

Nice to run into you again.

You're right about the differences in wiper directions of course. I guess you would naturally compare motors and check fitting/direction etc; before you buy the replacement.

Sitting under my house at the moment I actually have another complete assembly for one of the early cars (i.e. matches my '67 setup, and presumably yours) with a more modern motor fitted. It came out of a wrecked coupe. Surprisingly, even though it's a new-ish motor, the inside of the motor is rusted beyond repair.
I'm working on the car today, so I'll take a photo and see if anyone can identify what car it came from.

Off topic for a sec...
BTW Jay, remember the discussion you and I had a while back re electronic ignition for our Bosch 036 distributors? I found three kit's that will fit. Here's a new post with some extra info :)

Cheers,

-Col-
 

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Ok,

Here's some pics.

This motor was useless from the day I got it, so I've never really looked at it this closely. I bought it for the spare assembly. The motor itself is probably repairable, but the gearbox didn't have a gasket fitted so inside it is rusted beyond redemption.

The new motor fits this assembly really well. The only obvious difference is that the motor shaft aligns at almost a perfect right-angle with the geardrive (parallel with the assembly), rather than the odd angle of the original motor. Both gearboxes align parallel to the assembly, so in this case the motors are compatible.

The new motor is obviously a wider unit and the gearbox sits higher from the assembly, but it occupies an almost identical space due to the different angle of the motor.

The only other obvious differences are with the wiring. The wires exit the gearbox from the opposite side to the original motor, which is no big deal. More importantly it has four wires, so a little experimentation with switching may be required.

The part number on the newer motor is Bosch 0 390 346 117. Anyone with access to a parts catalogue able to identify what this is from?

Cheers,
-Col-
 

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the problem with not working 105 wipermotors is that the grease inside hardens end then it blocks the electrical pathways.


thake it apart are only 4 screws and thake a look.


Han


.
 

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Interchanging wiper motors

ColinP:

Thanks for posting those photos - they're worth the proverbial "thousand words". Yea, that's the issue I was attempting to put into words: the newer motors are fatter, and mount at 90* to the transmission output shaft, while the earlier motors are smaller, and mount at a non-90* angle.

Seems that I tried to bolt a new motor to the bracket of my '65 sprint, and found that the larger motor interfered with the bracket. The newer brackets have a dimple to accommodate the motor, but of course, these brackets have the wiper arm shafts closer together, since those arms swing in parallel (as opposed to the earlier cars, with further apart arms swinging 180* out of phase). So, you can't take the whole wiper motor-arm assembly from a '79 spider (say) and put it on your '65 Sprint GT.

I guess you could adapt a newer motor to an older car by either:
- modifying your bracket to clear the fatter motor
- mixing and matching pieces to put a new motor onto the old gearbox, assuming the worm gear on the armature has the same dimensions.

On another point, thanks for the lead to HotSpark. I have used a Pertronix ignitor I on my BMW CS coupe (which has a similar Bosch distributor to our Alfas, only it has 6 bungs). It works great - much easier starts than with points & condensor. HotSpark looks very similar, and as you point out, at half the cost. Guess I'll use a HS on my Sprint.
 

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Okay Jay, I'm confused :confused:

I've got two '67 GTV's, and two spare second-hand wiper assemblies - and all four assemblies are almost identical. But admittedly, they did all come out of coupes.
To be honest I've never played with the wipers on any other model Alfa, not even other model 105's, so I wouldn't pretend to know if they're the same or not on other cars. All four of my assemblies are the "clapping hands" type.

The only difference I can see between the assemblies are in the bearings at all the elbows.
The original assemblies in both of my cars had nylon bearings at the elbows (which were completely perished and had long since turned to powder). The later ones have much stronger (greasable) steel and rubber bearings. But the assemblies themselves are otherwise exactly the same in dimensions and construction, and fit into the cars perfectly - and the motors are interchangable between both. I know, because I took a good early model motor from my car, and attached it to the later assembly that I bought.

To confuse things... the new motor you can see in the photo's is (now) attached to the older rack, and the older motor is attached to the newer rack. ?:D?:D?
What can I say, the older motor is the only one that still works, and the bearings in the old rack are buggered.:D:D

These are both Australian deliver cars though, so there may have been a difference there to the US models I guess.

...the newer motors are fatter, and mount at 90* to the transmission output shaft, while the earlier motors are smaller, and mount at a non-90* angle... I tried to bolt a new motor to the bracket of my '65 sprint, and found that the larger motor interfered with the bracket.
Hmmm... doesn't cause a problem on mine. I went down to have a play and the motors swap between my different racks perfectly. I can't answer that one definitively, so I'll use my cop-out line and put that down to a diference between USA and Oz delivery cars. :D

One of the other BB members here in Brisbane is dismantling '65 Sprint for restoration which I hope to go and have a look at soon. I'll take a look and see if his wiper setup is the same as mine.

I guess you could adapt a newer motor to an older car by either:
- modifying your bracket to clear the fatter motor
- mixing and matching pieces to put a new motor onto the old gearbox, assuming the worm gear on the armature has the same dimensions.
I have another suggestion;
If it only needs a little extra clearance, try using spacers between the motor and the assembly - and longer bolts to compensate for the spacers, obviously.
If you don't need much, a couple of small thick galvanised or s/steel washers would do the trick. If you need any more than a centimetre, I'd suggest some stainless steel or alloy tubing, but you could also probably get away with some sturdy electrical conduit tubing or the like. As long as the end result holds firmly in place.

What I'd really like as an early birthday present is for someone to tell me what car the pictured motor came from, so I can go hunt another one down?
Bosch part # 0 390 346 117
Please?
Pretty please?
I am not above begging!

Cheers from Oz,

-Col-
 
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