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Help with Fispa fuel filter/regulator

22K views 32 replies 10 participants last post by  classicalfas 
#1 ·
Help please...:confused:

I added fuel to my tank today for the first time and I have a leaking Fispa fuel filter/regulator. It seems to be coming out the top from a very small hole (vent or breather?) located in between the two of the four screws that connect the two major sections together (top and bottom). When I try to disconnect the line to remove the unit, or when I undo the glass bowl, fuel continues to pour out the intake line as though it was under pressure. I have a stock Bendix electric fuel pump and the key is off!

Could this be a siphoning effect? How do I stop the flow? I would like to remove the unit to disassemble it to find the source of the leak. I can't remove anything because gas continues to pour out.

I have the filter that is also a regulator. When I assembled it I wasnt quite sure which way the diaphragm went in. It has a little aluminum cup on one side and it could fit one way or the other. Does anyone know how it is assembled or better yet have a photo or diagram of this assembly? I have all the manuals but it doesn't show one exactly like mine.


Specs:
• 1960 Giulietta Veloce Spider.
• Complete ground-up restoration.
• Not started yet.
• More info at: My Veloce restoration nearing completion. - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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#2 ·
FRB 11 parts and solutions

This is my second attempt to answer you. Somehow I erased my whole commentary on your problem:eek:. The problem is not unusual. The Fispa FRB 11 regulator is an excellent unit used both by Alfa and Ferrari with Webers. It has two purposes. First to keep fuel pressure about 3 lbs. and second to reduce the pulse hammering effect to the needle and float by either mechanical or electric fuel pumps. The leaking failure is either from the diaphragm, or the upper bowl seal. These are prone to damage from additives in current fuels. Fortunately, there is also a REAL solution as well. Goeffery Ohland, Partsource, 207-236-9791 has NEW neoprene replacement diaphragm's and bowl seals for the FRB 11. Tell him I sent you. I have used his parts in my small collection of regulators I cycle between cars as they develop leaks. His parts SOLVE the problem.
If your car is on a level surface, with the battery disconnected, your fuel flow WILL (eventually) stop. It is caused by pressurizing the system with the pump. No pump, no pressure. Remove your FRB 11, carefully disassemble, (Don't loose spring & ball in the top) Do not fiddle with the adjustment screw. If it was set correctly before the leak, it's still OK. Clean the whole assembly, while apart, replace the diaphragm and bowl seal (and filter if you bought one from Goeff). Check the top surface of the body to be sure it's FLAT. Over tightening the top screws can distort the top. On reassembly, tighten these screws evenly, enough only to seal the diaphragm. Over tightening will warp the top. Back together, reinstalled in the car, leaks are gone for good:cool:. If you need more help, let me know. :DGordon Raymond
 
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#3 ·
This is my second attempt to answer you. Somehow I erased my whole commentary on your problem:eek:. The problem is not unusual. The Fispa FRB 11 regulator is an excellent unit used both by Alfa and Ferrari with Webers. It has two purposes. First to keep fuel pressure about 3 lbs. and second to reduce the pulse hammering effect to the needle and float by either mechanical or electric fuel pumps. The leaking failure is either from the diaphragm, or the upper bowl seal. These are prone to damage from additives in current fuels. Fortunately, there is also a REAL solution as well. Goeffery Ohland, Partsource, 207-236-9791 has NEW neoprene replacement diaphragm's and bowl seals for the FRB 11. Tell him I sent you. I have used his parts in my small collection of regulators I cycle between cars as they develop leaks. His parts SOLVE the problem.
If your car is on a level surface, with the battery disconnected, your fuel flow WILL (eventually) stop. It is caused by pressurizing the system with the pump. No pump, no pressure. Remove your FRB 11, carefully disassemble, (Don't loose spring & ball in the top) Do not fiddle with the adjustment screw. If it was set correctly before the leak, it's still OK. Clean the whole assembly, while apart, replace the diaphragm and bowl seal (and filter if you bought one from Goeff). Check the top surface of the body to be sure it's FLAT. Over tightening the top screws can distort the top. On reassembly, tighten these screws evenly, enough only to seal the diaphragm. Over tightening will warp the top. Back together, reinstalled in the car, leaks are gone for good:cool:. If you need more help, let me know. :DGordon Raymond
Thanks for your reply Gorgon.

I have since stopped the leak but will follow-up on getting the replacement parts you suggested. I knew while disassembling the unit , something was missing; I do not have the ball and spring you describe. Any chance someone has an extra ball and spring?

Once I stopped the leak there was no more pressure at the tank and everything works well. I assume the ball and spring are necessary to regulate the fuel pressure? What size is the ball? Is the spring a very fine wound "light pressure" spring?

Thanks again,

If anyone has the ball and spring please contact me.

Cheers,

George
 
#10 ·
Goeffery Ohland, Partsource, 207-236-9791 has NEW neoprene replacement diaphragm's and bowl seals for the FRB 11. Tell him I sent you.:DGordon Raymond
Gordon, I contacted Goeffery and am ordering the diaphragm and seal but he has no internal parts. So, I am still needing the spring and cup. Any chance you may have any extra bits I could purchase from you? Or could we match the spring?

Regards,

George
 
#4 ·
Hi George,
Send me a PM with a fax # or address and I will get you a copy of the illustrated disassembly of the FRB 11. Now you have me thinking, "where IS that ball and spring?"
Worst case, I'll disassemble one I have not rebuilt and send you some pictures. Perhaps tonight.
I DO KNOW the last two I did used Goeff's parts and are .... perfect!.
Best, Gordon Raymond
 
#5 ·
FRB 11, dis & re assembly.

Hi George,
Here we go. This FRB 11 is from a Ferrari. Same as Alfa. Pict. 1 disassembled. #2 CAPTIVE ball bearing check valve. #3 Partsource diaphragm. #4 Top surface that gets warped by over tightening screws. More next post:cool:. :DGordon Raymond
 

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#6 ·
FRB 11, dis & re assembly.

Hi again George,
Here's the rest:rolleyes:. # 5 Is the new Partsource bowl seal. #6 The unit going back together. Line up the tiny holes for the lead seal wire in top and bottom halves. #7 Begin - End. Together, ready to go. Hope this all helps. The spring fits on top of the diaphragm, and below the little metal cup, acted on by the adjustment screw. The ball check is captive, and unlikely to get lost. (whew!:p At least there was a ball & spring as I remembered!)
:DGordon Raymond
 

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#7 ·
Hi again George,
Here's the rest:rolleyes:. # 5 Is the new Partsource bowl seal. #6 The unit going back together. Line up the tiny holes for the lead seal wire in top and bottom halves. #7 Begin - End. Together, ready to go. Hope this all helps. The spring fits on top of the diaphragm, and below the little metal cup, acted on by the adjustment screw. The ball check is captive, and unlikely to get lost. (whew!:p At least there was a ball & spring as I remembered!)
:DGordon Raymond
Wow, thanks Gordon, I owe you a tall cool one when we meet; Portland 2009 Convention? Looks like I am only missing the spring and the cup that seats in the adjusting screw.

Any one have the spring andcuo they would be willing to part with?

Thanks again Gordon.

Cheers,

George
 
#8 ·
Frb 11

Hi George,
All the little bits of the Fispa regulators are getting hard to find. Ferrari users pay big $ for them. I used to keep a bunch of part units around, but made them all up into complete units and sold them. Best bet is to try posting on the BB wanted section, or try Goeff @ Partsource. If all that fails, I can pull the spare apart again and try matching the spring at a good hardware or auto parts store. Springs are more complex than they appear, and the RIGHT one is not an easy find. You might try some of the older Alfa shops, as they may have a junk unit. That spring, and the little cap over it, acted on by the adjustment screw, are critical to the units correct function. The bottom of the spring rests in a cup thats part of the diaphragm, and fortunately, Goeff has that!
Keep me informed of your progress, and I will also keep a watch out for parts. The last really good FRB 11 I saw on E-Bay brought:)eek:) $160!!! :DGordon Raymond
 
#11 ·
Alfa romeo 2600 Fispa fuel filtr

Even today I going to see the fuel filter FISPA (originally for my 2600 spider in 1963) I noticed that gasoline was losing above. In short, the membrane no longer holds. Is the membrane for the FISPA? Or should I change all the filter FISPA 2600 spider? Can you help me I'm in Italy.
 
#12 · (Edited)
There are new parts available for the FISPA FRB 11 and the others like it. The new diaphragm and bowl seal are made of Viton, and fuel proof. No more leaks. These parts are available from <info@ferrariparts.com> , a Ferrari parts supplier in the U.S.
 
#14 ·
Excellent catch Mike! The price is close too. These are a worthy investment. The FISPA regulator is a good one, and can be rebuilt to handle modern "fuel" without leaking. The catch is always the diaphragm and bowl seal on originals. With these new parts, no more leaks!
 
#15 ·
Fispa Fuel Filter conection

Just yesterday I was tempted to take my Fispa filter apart but was afraid I could not get a new diaphram:confused: and viola! today I see this post.
I just purchased a project euro version 1970 GTV. I plan on using the mechanical pump for originality sake. I do have what may be a dumb question:eek:. How is the filter connected??: from the tank to the filter; to the pump; to the carb???:confused:
OR
from the tank to the pump; to the filter; to the carbs??:confused:
Thanks much for your help!
Luis
 
#16 ·
Originally,on the cars with Webers, the line ran from the tank to the fuel pump (electric in back, or mechanical in front), then to the FISPA FRB 11, then to the Webers.
 
#18 ·
Try googleing PARTSOURCE (Ferrari Parts). He has both the diaphragm and bowl seal.
 
#20 ·
Tank to pump, pump to regulator / filter, regulator/ filter to Webers.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the info.
I have a 70 GTV which I am trying to put on the road after 20 years of storage.
I removed the Fispa filter which I was gonna replace with a 'modern' cheapo fuel filter. However, after I opened up the Fispa I noticed a diaphragm and got to thinking that it served to more than just clean the fuel. So I consulted this forum and concluded that it was necessary to keep the Fispa in place. Is this correct or is there something more 'modern' used now?
Thanks for your help. James
 
#22 ·
The Fispa is best and easiest. The FRB 11 was used by both Ferrari and Alfa in front of Webers. You should replace the diaphragm and fuel bowl seal with modern fuel proof viton parts. They are available from "Partsource" owned by Geoff Ohland, and some other speciality Ferrari parts suppliers. The FRB 11 will damp out fuel pump pulses, and keep the pressure at a good-for-Weber 3 lbs.
 
#23 ·
For the FISPA fuel filter/pressure regulator, there is a set screw on the top, apparently for regulating the fuel pressure to the carburetors. Which way does one turn the set screw to decrease/increase the psi setting? I tested mine for fuel pressure yesterday, with the screw lined up with punched marks, and it measured 5 1/2 psi. I tried turning the screw, but could not discern a change.
Thanks in advance for your knowledge.
Jim Enloe
Iowa City
 
#24 ·
If the diaphragm is stiffened, or the spring weak, it will not change. Take it apart to check the diaphragm. Often the adjustment mechanism has rust inside. It should be clean. Somewhere on the BB, I posted a series of photos showing dis and re assembly. If you cannot find it, contact me by e-mail and I'll dig them out of my files. You may need to make a new spring. See photo's.<dademon@mindspring.com>
 

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#25 ·
I discovered a new leak on my Fispa regulator. It looks like it is coming from the inlet side of the unit near the fuel hose. On the second photo the fitting has a 90-degree bend and it looks like a metal disc in that fitting, it was loose and crooked in the fitting. I pushed it back in now it looks like the other side. I took the photos after I pushed the disc back. Could that be a source of a leak? What is the purpose of those plugs?
Auto part Automotive engine part Wheel
Auto part
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#26 ·
The plug was to cover the hole of the drilled passage. Drill bits dont like right angle turns.
GLUE the plug in with a fuel proof Epoxy.
 
#28 ·
Factory had a tool that upset the dome of the steel plug, and upset a ring of the zinc body over the edge of the steel plug. Flattening the dome of the plug expanded the OD of the plug and the upset edge of alloy held it in place. Hard to duplicate as a DIY job. Those that leak I glue in. Google fuel proof epoxy or check what you have, several are listed as "fuel-resistant".
Auto supply store will have something.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Gordon, I may as well take it apart completely to clean and inspect while it is out? The consumable parts are still available at Alfa Stop UK. Is this an FRB11 or FB43? I don't see those markings on it. Also, pin vs no pin? I guess mine has a pin attached to the bottom of the diaphragm, based on the 1st photo.? The only part I didn't remove was the yellowed plastic part in the last photo. What does the pin push on? Did I read somewhere else about a ball bearing? All I see is the small spring and the yellow plastic thing. Is there somewhere that shows a cross-section drawing and operation of this unit? I put both diaphragm surfaces on an emery cloth on a flat plate and gave a quick polish. The outlet brass colored pipe has the slightest bit of play (I can barely feel it move) is there any way to improve that, or more epoxy? Everything was clean inside and the diaphragm is still supple.
Disc brake Auto part Rotor Brake Vehicle brake
Auto part Automotive engine timing part Automotive engine part Clutch
Auto part Automotive engine part Rotor Disc brake Machine
Auto part Clutch Wheel Automotive engine part
 
#30 ·
Pinned FRB11. Fuel proof diaphragm and bowl seal are available in the USA from Partsource in Camden, Maine. Ferrari uses the identical FRB 11's on older Ferrari's with Webers. If you replace diaphragm, you will need to re-adjust to about 3# fuel pressure running on your car using an accurate fuel pressure gauge.
 
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