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Discussion Starter #1
Hi - I’ve been relocated to Germany for work, will probably be here another 2-3 years. I’ve been shopping for a spider, thought it be really cool/fun to have around here, I live in the country surrounded by vineyards so really cool backroads all around. Then I intend to bring it back with me when I return to the US, most likely to the Pacific NW. I’m tending towards a 1750 although if I come across a 1600 that checks most of the boxes I have, that’s ok too. I’m looking for something in very good shape, particularly the body & with original main components. I have come across several including a US version 1750 with the Spica injection. I would appreciate any thoughts or recommendations on any of the above, in particular:
A/ If I could find, with in budget, should I favor a 1750 or a 1600?
b/ Regarding the 1750, should I favor US version since it will most likely find its way back to the US?
Thanks much,
Richard
 

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When assessing the value of a property, real estate agents have three rules: location, location and location.

Adapted for old cars: condition, condition, condition. Find the best roundtaail you can at a price that makes sense. And the best bargain will not be the lowest priced one: it's the one that's the closest to what you want, without spending a cent more.

The variations you consider are minor. On the European market, you are likely to encounter a number of 1300 Junior Spiders. A bit limited on the power side, they are basically the same cars and you can repower them quite easily with a 1600, 1750 or 2000 later on.

As you will be running it in Germany for a while, the one I would be cautious about is the one with Spica injection. It is a great system, but since it was never sold by Alfa in Europe (apart from the Montreals) you won't be able to find anybody to service it overthere.

Don't hesitate to show us the cars you are considering, we can point out a lot of stuff from photos.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Merci Yves! Believe it or not, I’m a Montrealer too. Actually just spent two months there with family waiting to he able to fly back to Germany. Thank you very much for the offer, I will send you a couple that I found. Richard
 

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1968 1750 or 1969 1750
Do not get a USA SPICA as the folks who can work on these marvels of mechanical engineering are terrific, and they are beautiful pieces of work, but a Weber or Dellorto car can be taken care of by so many more people in comparison when something goes wrong. Roadtrip has even resigned from our Alfabb, one of the kindly SPICA zen masters.
Why?
1) 1750's had hydraulic clutches
2) Alternators
3) Better wiring with interior fuses
4) Better radiator setup
5) You can avoid Dunlops
6) More parts interchangeable with 2 liter models
7) Except for Kalifornia, maybe, I don't think any States hassle you over the emissions on a 1968 or 1969, even the NHTSA rules, 25 year expiration rule on imports, anyway, used to be, check into it

other better stuff I can't remember at the moment

Now, the best car to buy is a conversion one with a 2 liter convertible top that seals better, a roundtail grafted on, and a V6 Alfa engine with maybe a sequential gearbox, but those are extremely rare in well done form.

If Alfa Romeo had not been "taken over" by the Italian government, maybe that would have happened...... After the government loan in the early 70's the mojo seems to have gone, but so to many car companies that now suffer under massive government rules/diktat. Look what Kalifornia is imposing on stupid, ezel hoofd VW. (that means donkeyhead in Dutch, or that which my Dutch uncle said to me when I did something stupid....)

VW.....
 

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Look at mobile.de. You can change the language to english.
About 20 roundtails for sale. Prices from 30.000 to 50.000 €. Very few a bit cheaper.
Germans are not afraid of spending money on their cars but wages are quite high and this reflects in the price and if you look well also in the quality of the car.
Beware: modifications on wheels, tires, engines and so on must have to be listed in the cars papers (eingetragen).
There is also an official classification for the state of the cars, ranging from 1 (super excellent) to 5 (basket case).
Cars have to comply with legal and security standards. Tuv or Dekra
Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Look at mobile.de. You can change the language to english.
About 20 roundtails for sale. Prices from 30.000 to 50.000 €. Very few a bit cheaper.
Germans are not afraid of spending money on their cars but wages are quite high and this reflects in the price and if you look well also in the quality of the car.
Beware: modifications on wheels, tires, engines and so on must have to be listed in the cars papers (eingetragen).
There is also an official classification for the state of the cars, ranging from 1 (super excellent) to 5 (basket case).
Cars have to comply with legal and security standards. Tuv or Dekra
Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks, yes I’ve been using Mobile, Autoscout24 & Classiccarsforsale. Many roundtails are available, like another member mentioned, many are Junior 1300. But several 1600 & a few 1750’s, in Germany, Italy, France & the Netherlands. Challenge right now of-course is being able to travel to go see them. You are right, anything that seems in good shape is upwards of 45-65k EU. But I’ve been keeping an eye on availability In the US & again, original, matching numbers, very good condition meaning some significant work on them, prices are not that different. Thanks for your feedback - Richard
 

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Discussion Starter #8
1968 1750 or 1969 1750
Do not get a USA SPICA as the folks who can work on these marvels of mechanical engineering are terrific, and they are beautiful pieces of work, but a Weber or Dellorto car can be taken care of by so many more people in comparison when something goes wrong. Roadtrip has even resigned from our Alfabb, one of the kindly SPICA zen masters.
Why?
1) 1750's had hydraulic clutches
2) Alternators
3) Better wiring with interior fuses
4) Better radiator setup
5) You can avoid Dunlops
6) More parts interchangeable with 2 liter models
7) Except for Kalifornia, maybe, I don't think any States hassle you over the emissions on a 1968 or 1969, even the NHTSA rules, 25 year expiration rule on imports, anyway, used to be, check into it

other better stuff I can't remember at the moment

Now, the best car to buy is a conversion one with a 2 liter convertible top that seals better, a roundtail grafted on, and a V6 Alfa engine with maybe a sequential gearbox, but those are extremely rare in well done form.

If Alfa Romeo had not been "taken over" by the Italian government, maybe that would have happened...... After the government loan in the early 70's the mojo seems to have gone, but so to many car companies that now suffer under massive government rules/diktat. Look what Kalifornia is imposing on stupid, ezel hoofd VW. (that means donkeyhead in Dutch, or that which my Dutch uncle said to me when I did something stupid....)

VW.....
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I was already concerned about the Spica based on everything I read & is why I was asking the question. Thank you very much for your feedback, it puts the nail in the coffin on that question. Richard
 

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Wes Ingram is here in WA State and Ben at Ralliround, but I can work on my Webers with my wideband without driving to Anacortes or Bellevue. If you get the SPICA setup, it should be more trouble free than Webers. If you find a better SPICA car, and you can get help or like to learn, don't turn away.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Look at mobile.de. You can change the language to english.
About 20 roundtails for sale. Prices from 30.000 to 50.000 €. Very few a bit cheaper.
Germans are not afraid of spending money on their cars but wages are quite high and this reflects in the price and if you look well also in the quality of the car.
Beware: modifications on wheels, tires, engines and so on must have to be listed in the cars papers (eingetragen).
There is also an official classification for the state of the cars, ranging from 1 (super excellent) to 5 (basket case).
Cars have to comply with legal and security standards. Tuv or Dekra
Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #12
For a 1750 that I am looking at he advertises: ‘Classic Data Rating (2+) was created for the FC takeover and is available’. How reliable is that rating? I also asked him if the car was original & he answered, ‘everything is original (vintage TÜV certificate from 2004 is available)’ .. what would the TUV certificate show?
& the said ‘Spider with H registration, TÜV will be carried out in 6/2020’
Thanks Richard
 

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Tüv certificate shows data of the vehicle and its mechanical condition
If the seller is a dealer then the car should be to the promised standard, as far as I know (but I am not a German and not familiar with german law.
You might contact BB member "spiderserie4", he is german and might give much better and knowledgeable advise.
Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You guys have been most helpful so thought I’d pick you brain . I’m looking at two cars, links below.



I’ve had a lot communications with both. Both have matching numbers.
The first, the seller has had the car for 7 years; does not have a lot of history before that.My assessment at this point is he has kept the car in good working order, a couple inspections along the way rate the car very good overall. But no major rebuilds or restorations. I will be having the body & structures throroughtly inspected & if in excellent condition, I can live with the mechanicals, knowing I will have to address them bit at a time along the way.


The second you can see the amount of work. The seller told me every part of the car has been rebuilt, by his father an XAlfa mechanic. I am going to try to include a couple additional pictures of the body work. Looks like many parts were cut & rewelded. The bought the car from the original owner in Germany, I’m assuming in very poor condition.
Any thoughts, feedback, suggestions would be appreciated. Which would you guys prefer, of course given the prices. I’m assuming I can negotiate down 10%?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You guys have been most helpful so thought I’d pick you brain . I’m looking at two cars, links below.



I’ve had a lot communications with both. Both have matching numbers.
The first, the seller has had the car for 7 years; does not have a lot of history before that.My assessment at this point is he has kept the car in good working order, a couple inspections along the way rate the car very good overall. But no major rebuilds or restorations. I will be having the body & structures throroughtly inspected & if in excellent condition, I can live with the mechanicals, knowing I will have to address them bit at a time along the way.

The second you can see the amount of work. The seller told me every part of the car has been rebuilt, by his father an XAlfa mechanic. I am going to try to include a couple additional pictures of the body work. Looks like many parts were cut & rewelded. The bought the car from the original owner in Germany, I’m assuming in very poor condition.
Any thoughts, feedback, suggestions would be appreciated. Which would you guys prefer, of course given the prices. I’m assuming I can negotiate down 10%?
I'm not sure why the seller sent a picture of a GT floor. The other pictures that were sent to you are absolute crap. You cannot tell the quality of the work from them.

It would be better to shop for a car in the US and not Europe, unless you plan to travel to Europe to inspect the car yourself.
I'm not sure why the seller sent a picture of a GT floor. The other pictures that were sent to you are absolute crap. You cannot tell the quality of the work from them.

It would be better to shop for a car in the US and not Europe, unless you plan to travel to Europe to inspect the car yourself.
thanks, I live in Germany right now, another couple years. Intend to buy a car in EU while I am here then bring it back with me when I return to the US - Richard
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Went to visit one of Spider 1750’s I have on my list. Have you guys ever seen hairline cracks such as in the picture attached, almost same exact crack on both sides, same area. Is this something we see on this model or does it tell another story? Thanks! Richard
 

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