Alfa Romeo Forums banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I hope this is the right place to ask this. I am looking at buying a seller's 1982 GTV6, but he swapped the 2.5L for a slightly newer 3.0L from the Milano. Here's where the challenges and questions come in. Is the Milano V6 the same V6 from the GTV6? Both have Bosch L-Jetronic Injection. I live in California and the reason why I am asking is because in order for the car to pass smog, every emissions device from the new engine must be present for the inspection from the Air Resources Referee. Are there any emissions devices that are different on that Milano than what came with the GTV6? Also, where is the VECI Label on the GTV6? The seller is selling it for a decent price and it does run and the engine is very healthy, but I believe I'd need to find a way to get the car to pass SMOG with the new engine. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I know you all know quite a bit about these cars and these situations. Thank you.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,266 Posts
The seller should smog the car before your purchase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
The injection systems on both engines are virtually identical. I owned a 1982 GTV6 which had been fitted with a 164 3 liter, using all of the original electronics. The only visible difference was the engine type number on the block. Yet, I agree with HW: let the seller do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The seller should smog the car before your purchase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I completely understand that, but does that mean it is illegal to sell it without smog? Also, if he wanted to get it smogged, he could take it to a "firendly smog guy" that passes it but would fail if I were to take it to get smogged in 2 years. The only reason why I'm not getting on the guy about it is because the car is at a great price and that's why he's selling it low. I do agree that he should smog it though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The injection systems on both engines are virtually identical. I owned a 1982 GTV6 which had been fitted with a 164 3 liter, using all of the original electronics. The only visible difference was the engine type number on the block. Yet, I agree with HW: let the seller do it.
I completely agree that it should be the seller's responsibility, but let's say I did take it to get smogged, it most likely would pass visual if they are identical, but how different would the smog numbers be? Also, are there any rules regarding different engine sizes of the same engine? Alfa Romeo did sell the GTV6 with the 3.0L, but only 200 were made and it was from Alfa Romeo South Africa and Autodelta, but I don't know if that would help my cause at all. The big question is that would I have to take the car to the Air Resources Referee for this engine or is it okay? Thank you!
 

·
But Mad North-Northwest
Joined
·
12,071 Posts
Well, for cars sold in California, smog is the seller's responsibility, yes. So in theory, if you bought the car and couldn't get it to pass smog, or it failed two years on due to an illegal smog check, you could go back to the seller and demand your money back. In practice, good luck with that!

The L-jet 2.5 and 3.0 are virtually identical and will both pass an exhaust pipe test if in good shape. They also don't really have any significant emissions equipment per se beyond the cat (EGR, air pumps, etc. were all long gone on Alfas after EFI came out). So if you just took it to a smog guy as-is it would probably pass okay, provided the stuff on the GTV-6 emissions sticker in the hood matches what's actually in the engine. I'm thinking primarily idle ignition advance spec (likely different between the '82 and the later V6) as well as the vacuum hose layout, which might have differences as well (the 3.0 has an additional solenoid to boost idle when the A/C turns on, for example) which would be checked during the visual inspection. Obviously you'll also need a good cat converter.

Beyond that, I am not an expert but from what I am seeing online the California engine swap rules seem pretty reasonable. It appears that an engine swap is okay if the engine is from an equal-or-later year, same class of vehicle (e.g., no truck engine in a car), and has all the original emissions equipment present. You would need to take your car to a referee for an inspection and they'd put a sticker in the door frame approving the engine swap, then you would be good from that point forwards.

I don't know how difficult it is to get a engine swap certified in practice, however. If you decide to go that route I'd suggest talking to a mechanic or expert to get some guidance.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
That's right, the fact that the 3 liter engine comes from a later model year helps. What they don't want to happen is somebody fitting an earlier engine which would not comply with the car's model year regulations. But all of the hardware has to be up to snuff.

Is there any way you could get the car pre-tested?

If you need a catalyst, Magnaflow makes a great one for the GTV6.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
819 Posts
If you use the ‘82 L-jet instead of the Milano stuff, and the ‘92 valve covers it looks identical. I am not in CA but my 3.0 uses the ‘82 L-jet. There are visual difference in the later gtv6 and Milano that would require explaining.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
I completely understand that, but does that mean it is illegal to sell it without smog? Also, if he wanted to get it smogged, he could take it to a "firendly smog guy" that passes it but would fail if I were to take it to get smogged in 2 years. The only reason why I'm not getting on the guy about it is because the car is at a great price and that's why he's selling it low. I do agree that he should smog it though.
If he could take it to a 'friendly smog guy', then so can you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
614 Posts
If it were me I would walk and find one with an original motor and all the correct parts if you want this model. Calif. is bad news for smog checks but it is their right and you could be in for a big headache and have an un saleable boat anchor for a car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
Id be less worried about the visual and more concerned with the tailpipe emissions... 99.9% of the smog guys who would actually smog this car wouldnt recognize the difference between the two motors. If there are obvious emissions equipment deleted then youll have a problem. They will likely look at the emissions label under the hood and look to verify those parts are present and functioning... and then they will put it on the rollers and thats when you pray to the Holy Mother Mary that it is clean. Id definitely get the cats nice and hot before you go
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
819 Posts
Pretty sure there 3.0 converted gtv6 in California. Emissions with stock cams and a good converter should be perfectly good. Have the seller SMOG the car at a certified facility with proper documentation at a facility of your choice. Seems pretty low risk. The differences between early gtv6 L-jet and later L-jet are readily apparent. Not saying you should not be in full compliance with spirit and letter, but if you are just a spiritual buyer and the car is nice…
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top