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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi Alfabb,

First of all, I'm pretty new to this forum and absolutely new to Alfa's. I'm an American that lives just north of Rome and I've been looking around at classic GT's for a couple of months. I'm not looking for a museum show piece, just a clean car that can be daily driven back and forth to work (less than 5 miles each way).

The reason for this post is that I looked and drove a classic Alfa GT today that I really want. I just need to know about a couple of issues that are concerning me. I'm trying to keep the emotion out of the purchase, but it is difficult with this beautiful car.

The car is a 1969 (non-scalino) Alfa GT Junior 1300. It is red with black interior. The car drives well, runs well, idles nicely and looks great. I meet him in Rome and for a nice late morning view. He is asking 12,000 Euro.

1. Issue number one is that although the interior is really good and mostly new, the dash board has a lot of cracks. I know that there are some DIY solutions to this, but what would this cost to be refurbished professionally?

2. Some slight bubbling under the paint on the trunk lid. Not a deal breaker to me, but I know that it will have to be addressed some day.

3. The transmission seems to not have any synchronization. I'm nor sure if this is normal or not. I'm a rookie to Alfa's mind you. I had to double clutch and rev match for the entire drive. Which I don't mind, just looking to make sure this is normal.

Please advise and I'll try to get some pictures up when i'm not on a computer with windows 8 (i hate it!).
 

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12,000 Euro is a good price for a nice GTV.

The cost of a professional refurb of the dash in the USA is about $1k. Just Dashes is a company that does a very good job. A dash cap for $100 can look pretty good if you take your time when you fit it.

The trunk lid is a lot easier to address than the body work. Just remove it, fix it and paint it. Repairs anywhere else on the car can require a complete re-paint.

Worn synchros are common with these gearboxes but incorrect oil will make them worse. You could drain the oil, flush it by running it briefly with a liter of correct oil, drain it again and fill with 1.5 liters of correct oil. Redline 75/90NS is considered by many to be the best oil but it may not be sold in Italy. Shell Spirax 80W90HD is the original factory recommendation. Be wary of all other oils as many are too slippery for the Alfa synchros. Make sure that you can get the filler plug loose before you remove the drain plug! A gearbox rebuild by a competent gearbox mechanic would cost you about $1k in the US.

I lived in Rome and met my wife there a long time ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks alfaparticle,

12k Euro for a GT Junior (not GTV) seems to be pretty good based all of the other cars I've seen on the market. I've got a secret weapon I've yet to show the guy though, one of my Italian co-workers is a hell of a negotiator, haha. Well see how that part goes.
 

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except for the fact that it CANNOT be a non stepfront 69. This is a 71 or later car, hanging pedals etc. I suggest you crawl under the passenger side dash, with a flashlight and look at the area where the chassis number is stamped in. ( see inside engine bay)
I suggest you will see a weld running there from another cars chassis plate that was welded in.

Also contact Marco Fazio at the museum for info on this chassis.

On the dash, I've found an italian company through facebook that builds new dashes for about 500. You will have to give them yours as they use the metal 'base'of the dash for fabrication of a new.

If interested I'll look m up.

Stepfront cars were built until 1970. After that they became your car. Yours is 71 or 72.

A very great deal of difference, also in price. 12 k for this car as a genuine stepfront is a steal. 12K for a 71 1300 with a dodgy gearbox, bad dash and other issues. Mwah.
Sorry to spoil. If the car is OK and no sign of weld, etc, well, just accept for what it is, and enjoy. Otherwise: Dump it, fast, back to the seller.
I don't know how its called in english, but driving a car here with a hacked chassis number is a felony.
I don't know about Italy.
Sorry again,
Rik
 

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You have to excuse people here in the US who don't know much about the 1300 GT.....
All US 1969 GTs were smooth front. The telling part is that the brake and clutch pedals come up from the floor on 1969 and earlier cars. Starting in 1970 the pedald "hang" from above.
Very important that the car matches the paperwork details !!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I did ask the seller initially why the car did not have the stepnose. His answer is that the the car is a half model year, i.e. 69.5. He has the ASI registration documentation (I have not seen it myself yet) that shows the initial registration in 1969.

Would this make any sense, any idea on where I can research this better. I seems to be getting different answers on what is correct.
 

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I've asked him to provide me the chassis number. Also, no money has exchanged hands and nobody has signed anything. I will make sure to these specific details sorted out. I don't want to have any problems!
 

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except for the fact that it CANNOT be a non stepfront 69.
I agree.
The 1969 GT Jr was still had a stepfront nose. The smooth nose Jrs, also known as the Series 3, appeared with chassis # 1260001 the earliest of which, according to this GT Registry, is 1260694 manufactured 11 Oct 1970.
In addition, the earliest Alfa published technical material on the non-scalino Jr was a parts manual supplement dated 12/1970 followed by a number of user manuals dated 01/1971 and the technical specification manual in English dated 03/71.
 

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I suggest you crawl under the passenger side dash, with a flashlight and look at the area where the chassis number is stamped in. ( see inside engine bay) I suggest you will see a weld running there from another cars chassis plate that was welded in....I don't know how its called in english, but driving a car here with a hacked chassis number is a felony.
Whoa, hang on a minute. While this car may not be a '69 model year, that isn't to say than something unethical or illegal has taken place. Here in the States there are plenty of examples of cars that were built in year "X" and registered in year "Y". Typically Y is > X (eg, the car sits unsold on the dealer's lot over New Years), but the opposite could occur with no intention of fraud.

I would suggest checking for a swapped chassis number as Berlinista advises, but wouldn't be surprised if you don't find any evidence of a switch.

Also contact Marco Fazio at the museum for info on this chassis.
Yes, that is worth doing as well.

A very great deal of difference, also in price. 12 k for this car as a genuine stepfront is a steal. 12K for a 71 1300 with a dodgy gearbox, bad dash and other issues. Mwah.

Gee, it's good to learn that 105 GT's are so plentiful in the Netherlands. While stepfront cars will always command a premium, here in Southern California, any presentable, running Alfa GT for $13.6K would sell in a heartbeat.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ok, an update... perhaps not a good one for me. He provided me a chassis number of AR 1233169. Which is definitely a 1969 chassis number based on the registry on a car that seems to be not from 1969.

I have asked him for pictures of the chassis numbers from under the hood and from under the dash.

I may be a bit heart broken about this, but to find out now rather than from the Carabinieri!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Here in the States there are plenty of examples of cars that were built in year "X" and registered in year "Y". Typically Y is > X (eg, the car sits unsold on the dealer's lot over New Years), but the opposite could occur with no intention of fraud.
I understand, but this car is in Rome, Italy and so am I.
 

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I have an '70 stepnose GT Junior with standing pedals and chassis no. 125xxxx. After Mr. Marco Fazio from AR museum my car was build on 24th December 1970 and was sold to Germany at 30.12.1970.

May be there is a possibility that both series ( step- and smoothnose GTJ's ) were produced at the same time ? ( as some companies used to do at the past, eg Mercedes ).

Ali
 

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I understand, but this car is in Rome, Italy and so am I.
Yes, I understand that the car is in Rome, Italy and so are you.

My point was that year of manufacture - year of registration discrepancies occur here and they probably occur elsewhere as well. Auto dealers and registration authorities weren't as careful with these details 45 years ago as they are today.
 

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I have an email out to Mr. Marco Fazio for some specifics regarding this chassis number.

The car owner has also agreed to sending me pictures of the chassis number as it sits on the on the firewall and from under the dash. He has not owned this car for long and may also be in for some news....
 

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Alfajay, No matter how it was registered. If it was a 69, which it isn't, and had a 71 registration, it would still be a standing pedal stepnose. Not the other way round. It aslo didn't receive a nose job because of the hanging pedals and other details. I've had lots of 68, 69 and 70 stepnoses.

FYI i have a 75 (unificato) GT1300 Junior for sale at Euro 16500,- needs NOTHING. Red, black interior, fresh everything. This is the late model, with the 2000 gtv dash and grille, no overriders, and the small taillights. Anyone interested from the states can mail me at the shop and I will reply. Again: Needs nothing.

Back on topic,
Randy, ALL GT1300s from 69 and 70 are stepfronts. You had the GTV , 1600 stepnose, and then you got the first series 1750. Starting in 68 these were flat nose. You could not purchase a GT1300 Junior over there new. Ali, Papajam, Those built in october 70 and on might be flat nose but MY71 and probably pre production . Up to dec 70 you got a stepnose if you ordered a gt1300jr.
 

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It happens here. People buy an italian car without papers. That has its reasons, I wont digress.
Has to do with tranfer of ownership in italy to a foreign country, a lot of italians find this scary. This case is different, foreign national but car stays in italy.

Also because of an enviromental ruling, bring your old car to the wrecker, get a cheque for a rebate on a modern new car. Good cars to wrecking yard, foreigner wants to buy, can't, paperwork bureaucratically taken in by government, car declared destroyed.
So buy without papers.

Back here in Holland lot's of 105 cars, grotty, rusted out. Chop out chassis number, weld in the plate, which is very easy, and hey, fresh car.
Ecxept for one thing: You can do this, but then the car passes muster by the cognoscenti. And you get stuff like this.
I have right here a beautifully restored 1968 SECOND series 1750 with hanging pedals and all the other second series stuff. Manufactured 1968. Yeah sure. One look: Hey, there's the weld. I can't get the car valued for the owner because its value is no more than the resale value of the parts. So, now looking for a second series 1750 wreck with papers. What else ya gonna do?
I also know of a 1967 Giulia Nuova Super close by. Yeah sure. If this is done, for whatever the reason, it's almost never theft, but dutch governmental bureaucracy ( gotten better in the meantime) or lacking papers, or desire to have an original dutch period registration as compared to an import. If it's done do it RIGHT, because too many people just know the difference. Replace by exactly the same model's chassis number. Like, I can really spot the difference between a 67 1300TI and a 74 Nuova body. Not just me.
So if you want to get in trouble, create a 67 Nuova. Because there are people in the dutch DoT who can see this just as well...
And if you ever end up there chances are your car will be impounded. Being a fraud.
Really, NO discussion, this car is NOT what it purports to be. In itself, for the money, well, whatever. Up to the owner. But tread VERY carefully.
 

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just await Marco's reply. He's quick..
Even then, it will say something like 105.30, manufactured whatever 1969 and delivered to blabla , color Verde Muschio with Maremma wild boar interior.
So still won't help you.
Can't see if the cars color IS original.

Rik
 
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