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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, here we go. First post on this forum, you guys seems ultra knowledgeable. Parked my Milano after original clutch seemed worn out in my garage in 2002. Raised 2 teenage kids, and literally never got to the car. I could go down memory lane for hours about my Alfafisto habits back when i was single and free.

Thanks to Covid-19 i decided to clean out my garage. Two weeks later and 3000 lbs of trash removed, i uncovered my sweet Milano.

Obviously it wouldn't start. So here is what i did....Added a semi-fresh battery, to my surprised she turned over real well.
But no fire, so i pumped out whatever fuel was in the tank. Removed tank screen expecting it to be really dirty but it was super clean. Flushed out tank after 2 days of drying it out with 5 gallons of gas. Replaced fuel pump with new Bosch pump, replaced fuel filter as well. Refilled tank with 10 gallons of fresh gas. Replaced new spark plugs properly gapped to .025 along with cap and rotor.

Now it starts with 25% throttle and runs like a small tractor until i remove throttle and it stalls. Slight smell of unburned fuel coming from exhaust.
Opened air box, sprayed a touch of starter fluid and it starts on all cylinders at least it sounds like for a second or two.

Carefully removed plenum and fuel rail along with injectors...So here is the question...how do i get the injectors off the fuel rail to clean them they seem to be attached to the rail permantly. My IAP shop manual from 1995 (which almost turned to dust ) states to "weld them off" ??
Should i remove them individually to clean or just set up a bench rig using the old pump to flush all 6 @ once using tectron and alot of buckets and hoses??

Oh and it looks like i only have one thick o ring to seal it to its seat, manual shows a large and small together on cylinder side unless it melted as one? Or my last engine work done in 2001 (milled heads after new valves and seats) involved Luigi forgetting to replace them. I see he did a wonder to the electrical connectors (which i was never able to see them well with the plenum in the way. Connectors were on well but each had a bite missing from the plastic clips.
I guess it happens...anyway any advice will be appreciated.

Also little hoses from fuel rail to injectors are old but intact, so no pressure or fuel leaks there.
Help me start this thing...please.
Thanks
 

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If it hasn't run or been taken care of since 2002, do not try to run it any more until you have changed the timing belt, etc. That's one old belt and I wouldn't trust it.

Also, you probably know that you should not try to start it with your foot on the gas pedal. Doing that can blow the plenum off big time.
 

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Second Del. Great news that it turns over and starts, id say with that info you should be pleased!
But a timing belt that has sat in the same position for 18 years, and is 18+ years old, get it out of there! It could be dry rotten, misshapen, weakened, all sorts of bad things.

Get the engine running right first before you try to drive it, cause you'll kick yourself big time if the belt slips, a fuel hose gives and starts a fire, or who knows what electrical fault that got forgotten.

Pics are appreciated! This will be a good project to mess with!
 

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Hi there, just reiterating, we like pictures, it important for us to know if it’s red or silver or? as that can affect troubleshooting methodology.
Good advice above. Timing belt, definitely don’t try starting it with your foot anywhere near the gas pedal.
Does your fuel pump run with key on and airflow meter flap opened a bit?
Definitely go through the Ljet guide, L-Jetronic Technical Info - Alfa Romeo GTV6 & Milano

The book uses the term welding to refer to a soldering iron, used to melt off the hose without damaging the hose barb, keep and reuse the cups.

Hope it’s a fun project, welcome to the bb.
 

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Hi there, just reiterating, we like pictures, it important for us to know if it’s red or silver or? as that can affect troubleshooting methodology.
Good advice above. Timing belt, definitely don’t try starting it with your foot anywhere near the gas pedal.
Does your fuel pump run with key on and airflow meter flap opened a bit?
Definitely go through the Ljet guide, L-Jetronic Technical Info - Alfa Romeo GTV6 & Milano

The book uses the term welding to refer to a soldering iron, used to melt off the hose without damaging the hose barb, keep and reuse the cups.

Hope it’s a fun project, welcome to the bb.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Vintage thankyou, soldering iron, hum ok, clamps were"nt available in 1987?
Belt was suppossedly a high milage belt (pirelli rx) when it went in with only 10k on it but yes i understand that rubber breaks down over time and its not the milage.
Anyway, i didnt understand exactly how the cups work to hold the tubing, so i wont be able to reuse the small hoses , have to replace correct?
And what did you mean by color ...red or silver?
 

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Vintage thankyou, soldering iron, hum ok, clamps were"nt available in 1987?
Belt was suppossedly a high milage belt (pirelli rx) when it went in with only 10k on it but yes i understand that rubber breaks down over time and its not the milage.
Anyway, i didnt understand exactly how the cups work to hold the tubing, so i wont be able to reuse the small hoses , have to replace correct?
And what did you mean by color ...red or silver?
Everyone likes to see photos of your car.

Even though we have all seen Milano's, it still nice to see the one you own.
 

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Even if you could remove the hoses without damage, I would not re-use them. Old hoses dry out, crack, split and then leak!

Yes, the shop manual advises one to remove the hoses by melting through them with a soldering iron (they tranlate it as a welder!). The reason is to avoid nicking the hose barbs with a knife - that could lead to leaks. The cup washers (#3 "bushing") go on first, then the new hoses* are pushed on. I lube them with a drop of light oil. The cup washers keep the ends of the hoses from ballooning out. No clamps required (the Cold Start Injector might have a hose clamp if it is the same as the GTV6).

* you must obtain the correct size hoses for the fuel rail to injectors. 7.5mm ID. 1/4" is too small, 5/16" is too large. You probably won't find that size in the auto parts store. I ordered a few feet on-line (VW's use the same size hose).

There probably isn't much you can do at home to service clogged injectors. I suggest you send them out for service. I've used Cruzin Performance. They clean them in an ultrasonic bath, cycle solvents through them and replace the inlet screens. They will send you before & after reports. Typically they come back good as new.

1631614
 

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Discussion Starter #9
GHNL, thanks . I have the same manual. I wasn't sure about how the hoses went on. I see how they attach now, ok cool, thanks for the advice on hose diameter. And who to send them to which i may send them to if i cant get to it, but i have 2 ultrasonics and lots of gumout im looking to use. i made my own little fitting to flush out the injector, so we"ll see. I appreciate it.
Sorry, if i didn't get the joke, were you guys talking about the color of the car itself?
If so its not red or silver. I was so focused on the question and the part i missed the humor, sorry.
 

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The other thing you can do is to check the fuel pressure, if you get one of the harbor freight fuel pressure gauges you can plumb it inline with the cold start injector hose. As for the big and small o-rings on the injectors, the small ones are probably still in the head, they can stick there if they are old. I second the use of the proper 7.5mm fuel hose, don't use standard or 8mm.

As others have said, don't try to start the car with your foot on the gas as you might get the infamous plenum pop, which can lead to damage if your plenum hose clamps are too tight. The only exception to this is if you think you have a flooded engine, in that case if you push the gas pedal all the way down and try to start you will be in flood clear mode which does not fire the injectors.

These are interference engines so not good to take a chance that the timing belts might snap or jump timing.

Have fun, these are great cars and I miss all mine a LOT!

Kevin
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Kredden, thanks for the advice on the o rings, i dont see the small ones anywhere, but i will get back in there on tuesday with a light and pick them out if there in there. It only looks like there is a smuschy fat one on the injector three came out with the rail and three stayed in there. Schematic also shows a "seeger ring" which i did not see and only now just heard of. So maybe they were never put back in , many moons ago ?? I know timing belt is important and have no plans to drive it once it starts as the clutch was crappy. I would just like to hear the Ansa sound again ! If it starts, i will post pics. Trust me the word i always got with this car was " Its so fresh" and it really is. Help me start it then we can all drool...😀
 

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Here is a pic of the pair so you can see the size difference (don't buy the ones from Rock Auto, they suck :) ). Don't know what a seegar ring is, maybe the thing you screw down to hold the injector in?

1631616


Here's a link to a video I made years ago of me testing my injectors with the Autoforce Tester I used to have. You can see the small o-rings on the ends of the injectors:

Kevin
 

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Sorry, if i didn't get the joke, were you guys talking about the color of the car itself?
If so its not red or silver. I was so focused on the question and the part i missed the humor, sorry.
It's an old joke - often used by Click & Clack on NPR's Car Talk radio show when they didn't know an answer and needed more time to make up something...
 

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Oh, take my word for this happening, been there, have had that happen, once in our Milano, once in my 86 GTV6, forgetting about this in a brain fade, lol. It's a common phenomenon for that particular injection/intake system for the V6 GTV6s and Milanos. I think it is even in the Owner's Manual.

You MUST keep your foot off the gas pedal when turning the key to the start position and while the starter is running. Don't touch the gas pedal until the engine is actually running. Ours usually starts running as soon as the key is turned in a cold start, always has. Just great, amazing, even at 100k miles on the original distributor and rotor, NGK Iridium plugs. These engines, if in good condition, will almost always start like that.

The problem is that it uses a cold start injector which squirts a lot of gas into the plenum when the starter is run, like a choke, and that mixture will likely backfire as the plugs spark as the valves open and close if the throttle plate is held open by depressing the gas pedal, letting in new fresh air. That backfire can blow the overhead intake plenum right off the intake hoses, banging up against the inside of the hood. Can leave a bump in the hood if it hits hard enough. Or, in the case of the GTV6, maybe pop the "tea tray" out of the hood. Sometimes that backfire can do some damage to the engine, and you sure don't want that. There is one fellow posting that this happened to his car, and now it will not run. Still trying to find out what had been changed or damaged by the backfire.
 
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Hmmm, did my post get modified by the authorities?
 

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Ah, I had mentioned the name of the fellow with the Milano backfire problem. It's not there now. Thought the names were public if they were posters. Maybe I wasn't supposed to do that, sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
ok, here is where i am at so far. what i thought was the large rubber ring is actually the smaller rubber o ring. The seegar ring is what we call a snap ring. So i dont see a reason to change the large o ring in the upper part of the injector when only the tip of the injector goes in. Therefore needing a small o ring to seal it. another discovery ...when i send power to the injectors they all click briskly. When i send power to the cold start injector...it does nothing. Should it click ?

Here are my questions....
1- how in gods name do i pull the injectors of the rail? do i really have to melt it ? those little rubber hoses are on there tight.
2- Should the cold start injector click when energized ?
3- why do i like taking things apart and then complain about having to take things apart ?:)
thanks in advance
 

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You MUST keep your foot off the gas pedal when turning the key to the start position and while the starter is running.
Wow, thanks. 30+ years of ownership and I'd never heard that. I went through the owner's manual and there are no relevant warnings. It does say to do cold starts without depressing the accelerator, but the context is different:
Automatic devices, besides doing away with the conventional choke, facilitate the initial running of engine [sic] after a cold start, allow a faster warming up of the engine and improve drivability.
That's it. Fortunately, I mostly leave the accelerator alone when cold starting --except for the times I don't :eek:
 
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