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Discussion Starter #1
Team 164,

Is it possible to permanently remove the AC compressor on a 24V 164, get a shorter serpentine belt and run the car that way?

Has anyone ever done this? If so, what size belt is needed?

Thanks,
 

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I've read of folks mounting an A/C compressor pulley as an idler just where the compressor sits. As the alternator is offset from the A/C compressor by a few ribs of the belt, you could probably re-mount it offset or get a longer pulley made to take the belt in its present plane but with a longer belt. You'd have to scope it out to see whether any other auxiliaries are in the way, like the thermostat housing or the radiator hose. It wouldn't be a picnic, but I suspect it could be done.

The A/C compressor doesn't actually _have_ to have anything but the idler bearing and shaft supports. No actual compressor or clutch mechanism need be there to transfer torque from the w.p. serpentine belt to the alternator belt.

Michael
 

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There is no offset on the 24 valve motors. It all runs off one serpentine belt. I just don't know if the compressor can be yanked out and a shorter belt used.

Anyone know??

Thanks.
 

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Might be tight. Looking at a picture I have of a 12V motor with the 24V parts on it (don't ask!), I suspect any belt run that misses out the A/C comp would foul the lower alternator mounting bolt if you left both idlers in place. If you removed the lower idler, you could run the belt thus; under crank, up and over the upper idler, across to the bottom of the alternator pulley, round over the top then back to the water pump. This should clear everything but the belt will pass very close to itself coming the other way as it passes over the top of the upper idler. Simple enough to test with some string before you go looking for a suitable belt. This trick might also work removing the upper idler and leaving the lower but you may run foul of clearance to the alt. bracket and the runs are longer too, so you might get some belt slap.
 

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What's wrong with compressor bad pulley bearing if so just change out bad pulley bearing and leave compressor in place.
 

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I had to bypass the A/c compressor on her old black 95 LS I went to the auto parts store (Auto zone) and kept trying belts till I found the right belt. I think it was for a Corsica or Beretta and it had one less rib on the belt.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Lenard,

Are you able to read the part number and brand name off the belt you purchased for this purpose?

That would be tremendously helpful.

Thanks....


Steve, I just put a brand new compressor and bearing on this car for my friend. It failed within 1,000 miles! Not sure what is up. The new tensioner I put on seemed MUCH stiffer than any other one I have handled, but it is the only new one I have ever had in my hand and may just be because it actually had fluid in it, and not just a spring!

Any additional advice would be great, but I am shocked that the bearing went bad so soon. I haven't actually gotten the car back to witness this myself, but my friend says there is goop coming form the center of the new compressor bearing area and it has been smoking out the front. Who knows, maybe the new compressor just blew the front seal and the oil is smoking out with the refrigerant but the bearing is ok? I will know more soon and report back when I get my hands on the car and pull off the belt.

Thanks guys.
 

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I had to bypass the A/c compressor on her old black 95 LS I went to the auto parts store (Auto zone) and kept trying belts till I found the right belt. I think it was for a Corsica or Beretta and it had one less rib on the belt.
I remember that day, Lenard praying it would not fall off. I think if you added another pulley it could work. Or a smaller pulley on the top to add some extra space from the alternator. Instead of the 90mm pulley might think about a 45mm. Actually the 12V pulley might work very well here. The pulley by the crankshaft I would leave it alone. This way it would clear.
You can see what I mean by this picture. If the upper was smaller it could clear.

 

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I will look in my parts pile and see if I have it leftover. I just put it on without the A/C it was a tight fit.
 

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I have a feeling it is still easier (and less experimenting since it is not your car) to repair/replace the compressor bearing (if that has failed). If your friend does not care about A/C, disable the compressor electrical so the clutch does not engage (or put in another switch under the dash so the compressor will not get engaged "automatically" unless it is switched on manually).

For the "shock absorber like" tensioner (or plunger), test it with a C-clamp to check that it can move (I don't remember, but it is possible that it needs to be "unlocked" before installation). Or, you might want to get another one to compare.

If you take the A/C compressor out completely without doing other mod, I would think the belt (a shorter one) will touch/rub at around the lower side of the upper idler pulley.

Here're a couple ideas (my 24V is away so I can't look at it closer):
1. Change both idler pulleys to smaller ones (like using the 24V timing belt idler pulleys). This might provide enough clearance for the belt. One disadvantage is that the pulleys will spin at higher RPM.
2. See whether you can mount the alternator lower.
3. Add another (after market) idler pulley (with grooves) at where the A/C compressor was.

One thing I suggest is to keep the belt wrap around the crank pulley, water pump pulley etc as much as possible. I found with the factory set up, the OEM belt has a tendency to slip even with fully adjustment at the eccentric bearing - I put in a slightly shorter (and cheaper) after market belt a couple months ago and that seems to work better so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you for all of the inputs. I kind of like the idea of putting a 24V pulley on in place of the upper pulley.

Or, couldn't I use the 12 valve tensioner pulley?? What would be almost the identical set-up for moutning, wouldn't it?
 

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Thank you for all of the inputs. I kind of like the idea of putting a 24V pulley on in place of the upper pulley.

Or, couldn't I use the 12 valve tensioner pulley?? What would be almost the identical set-up for moutning, wouldn't it?
Thats what I said ;), use the 12V for the upper for clearance. Also the bushings and clearance are pretty much the same on the bearings. I also prefer to keep it stock but if your gonna do it go for it. Smaller diameter pulley should give some clearance but the lower should stay the same as it needs that angle off the crank shaft.

Jason
 

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Ah, sorry I missed that Jason.

Isn't that 12V bearing overpriced?? What is it going for? Would the same shims (for lack of a better word) that pop into the 24V idler pulley prior to putting the bolt through it and mounting it fit exactly the same into the 12V pulley??
 

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Ah, sorry I missed that Jason.

Isn't that 12V bearing overpriced?? What is it going for? Would the same shims (for lack of a better word) that pop into the 24V idler pulley prior to putting the bolt through it and mounting it fit exactly the same into the 12V pulley??
Maybe a bit but there is really nothing we can do about it.
http://www.alfissimo.com/index.php?productID=355

Yes, they are called bushings. The 2 pieces that slip inside the bearing are the same. The widths are the same, just the diameters are different.

I hope in the future to find a better source for them so I can sell them way below this price. But for now that is what I have. They are new and I never recommend repressing in the bearing unless you have a lip welded on the outer to keep the bearing in, like from the factory. it will fall out.

Jason
 

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Isn't that 12V bearing overpriced?? What is it going for? Would the same shims (for lack of a better word) that pop into the 24V idler pulley prior to putting the bolt through it and mounting it fit exactly the same into the 12V pulley??
Yes, way overpriced IMO ;)! I have always just replace the bearing (63004-2RS1) or use 24V timing belt idlers that I have retired out from the 24V timing belt use. The 24V serpentine belt idler pulley use the same 63004-2RS1 bearing and the same metal bushings as the 12V serpentine idler. Replacing the bearing is easy to do with a press (I bought an el cheapo press that cost less the the OEM pulley) and old bearing always came out with a "pop" so it was tight. Since a replacement bearing cost $12 or so, I just swap it every one or two years. There're many other pulleys (~$20) that can be use to substitute the 12V serpentine idler.
 
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