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Discussion Starter #1
Just got done running the Verde at a two day event at my local track (NHIS) having a ball.

I was getting slung around quite a bit in the Recaros using the stock seat belt. Is there some better harness I can put in there to use just for track days to keep me in the seat better? I don't have a roll bar.

Thanks,
Kevin
 

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I just recently installed a G-Force 5-point harness in my car with the stock recaros.


I have left the stock seat belt in place and drilled 2 holes to mount the front part of the harness (one bolt is mounted with the stock seatblet in place, using the same bolt. There isn't much leverage effect and it appears quite safe.) The shoulder straps are more tricky. I'm using the lower rear seat belt holes to mount my shoulder straps. This won't be safe in a high speed impact as there is a great angle goign from my seat back to the rear seat belt bolts. IT should be OK in mild to medium impacts, but if I get involved in a really bad front end collision, it could compress my spine and make me paralyzed or worse. Oddly enough, this is OK with the group I run with occasionally, so I haven't looked into a better solution yet.

If you want more details on how to actually drill the holes and mount the harness, ask here. I'm sure other members and I will be able to help you out.

For now though, I would recommend getting a seat with larger bolsters. This will give you more support when cornering and still be fine to use on a daily basis.
 

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I've got a RPM Racegear 3 point harness I use for track days in mine - Replaced the stock seatbelt bolts with eyelet bolts for the sides of the harness to snap into, and then put a eyelet into the top of the child seat mount in the parcel tray and strengthed the area.

It's not the ultimate solution, but it's a good way of installing a harness without much customisation. The type of harness allows easy removal by simply unclipping it from the eyelets.

ROCK ON
R~R
 

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It is not a good idea at all to install a 5 or 6 point race harness in a stock car, without a roll bar where you can attach the shoulder belts at least 20 degrees higher than your shoulders. (Grant's comment is spot on.) In fact, harnesses are typically forbidden at track events, when a car does not have a roll bar. The harness must be installed so that it can deal with extreme situations, such as when the car flips over and it becomes imperative for you to remain safely suspended while being upside down... The harness will keep you snug to the seat (as long as you use it properly), but it will do nothing to prevent you from being tossed around when cornering hard. The only option for this is to fit the car with a race seat. For more on harnesses, and what are some minimum requirements, check the AROC Competition Code and/or the SCCA guidelines.

Best regards,
 

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A 5 point harness is a mandatory requirement at time trailing and beyond at our (AROSC) events, and for time trailing - you do not need a roll bar. You can mount a 5 point harness in a stock car in a satisfactory fashion without a roll bar, offering far better protection than a stock seat belt! I would suggest to read your applicable comp code and other authorites on the subject.

For street use a 5 point harness can be a bit of a pain. If you mount is as "click-in" and can leave the stock seat belt in, then you can just click it in for the track weekend and take it back out afterwards.

Jes
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I know they can be a pain for street use so I'd like something that I can either remove or get out of the way while on the street. Guess I'll poke around a bit more...

Kevin
 

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Kieth at Group2 has some ideas about a removable bar across the door posts in the Milano that you would mount the harness to. Maybe if enough of us bugged him he'd be willing to move forward on this. Lacking a harness I plant my left foot firmly on the dead pedal and push like hell, works for now....
 

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In fact, harnesses are typically forbidden at track events, when a car does not have a roll bar.
Enrique,

That may hold true for Spiders, but hard top like the Milano are able to run with harnesses, and they do help significantly. I find you can drive much better when all you have to concentrate on is steering, brake/throttle, and shifting - instead of holding yourself behind the wheel.

*Another* option is the DOT-legal 4 point system from Schroth.

 

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Discussion Starter #12
Joe,

I had seen the Schroth's while surfing and they look pretty good, do you know anyone who's put a set into a Milano?

Kevin
 

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That's a bit of an odd design for a 4 point. I've only ever seen 4 points made like this;



It seems you guys have more stringent guidelines for competition though. I know most of the intermediate serious competition here simply requires a minimum 4 point with 3" width.

I just leave my harness in most of the time, the buckle sits in the back of the seat so isn't uncomfortable, and I have my stock seatbelt retained for street use. I simply drive to the track with the stock seatbelt, clip in the tail of the harness to the parcel tray, race with the harness, unclip and drive home normally. I went through a period with just the harness and no race seat, and it did make a difference in the amount of movement I encountered. Of course installing a race seat made even more of a difference.

ROCK ON
R~R
 

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That Schroth 4 point with a Y is not allowed by many race groups. And also, putting in a 4 point should be easier than a 5 point....there's one less hole to drill.

Keep in mind, if you're goign to install a harness, might as well be a harness that you'll actually be able to use when you go out to the track (5 point, 3 inch atleast).

Kredden, if you get a harness for your Milano, be sure it is an "H-type". If it is not, it may not be long enough to attach to the rear of your car, as many of these harnesses are designed to be used in conjuction with a roll bar or cage, and are not long enough to reach the back of a sedan.

I don't beleive the I/O port racing harness bar will work in a Milano. The bar goes right across where most drivers will need their seat back and head rest. I just wish us poor Milano drivers could have something like this that I saw in an Evo:


 

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I'm as per Rookie ROX - 3 point belt using eye bolts in std locations and child restraint. Its not ideal, but does a better job than a std inertia reel belt at holding me in place on the track.

A proper seat is MUCH better though am still resisting the urge to turn it into more or a race car than a road car.
 

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Enrique,

That may hold true for Spiders, but hard top like the Milano are able to run with harnesses, and they do help significantly. I find you can drive much better when all you have to concentrate on is steering, brake/throttle, and shifting - instead of holding yourself behind the wheel.

*Another* option is the DOT-legal 4 point system from Schroth.
Hi Joe,
I referenced the AROC Competition manual, since it lists the rules... Anyway, a 4 point harness is not allowed at all, for any car, open or closed. Here are two of the rules pertaining to the race harness, which better articulate what I was trying to state, and are applicable to all cars:

2. ... The shoulder harness should be mounted behind the driver and above a line drawn from the shoulder point at an angle of 40 degrees with
the horizontal. ...
3. An anti-submarine belt is required, ...​
Best regards
 

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A bar like the one shown in Grant's post above could easily work in a Milano. I just took a quick look and I think you could just use the seatbelt mounting points. I moved both seats back to the max, and it sure looks like it would work. The two vertical bars prevent pivoting since the main bar is held by only one bolt on each side. I would set it up so you still have stock seatbelts. My main partner for this sort of work died recently in a motorcycle wreck. This would have been a cakewalk for him. If anyone is interested, we could compare meaurements and get them built on our own.
 

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Yes i am interested. Although, I think I'm first going to try to call Sparco and try to get some measurements from their exhisting bars. If they have anything that is within a cm of our cars, we should be able to get it to work by filing or spacing.
 

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Harness Bar for Milano

There are a few different ways to go... all custom no matter how you slice it. I prefer not to drill any additional holes or weld/add any extra bolts. This bar looks and works perfectly... extremely sturdy and positioned correctly (looks a lot like that Evo bar in this thread). Anyway, this utilizes stock belt system bolts and can be installed/removed in about 5 minutes (I also had a very similar one fabricated for my '69 GTV a few years ago). More info about this one if anyone is interested. Sorry for the bad angle/picture of the bar itself, it's the only one I could find quickly... will take a few more and post again. Thanks.

Mirko
 

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