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Discussion Starter #1
First let me say I have had an Alfetta for 30 years and always have been able to fix it myself. I have owned the 164 for 3 years and have never been able to fix anything that breaks, including something as simple as a turn signal that wont blink on the left rear.

This week's adventure started when my 164 began to get hard to start. it normally starts within a couple of cranks. Yesterday my wife drove it to the store about 5 miles away, when she came back out the car wouldn't start. When I got off work about 4 hours later, I went to the car it cranked over a little longer than normal than started. Once started, it seems to run well, it idles evenly and seems to have no odd sounds or anything. When it was running, I could hear what I assume is the fuel pump from the trunk area of the car. I turned the car off and it absolutely refused to start.

So far I have checked for fuel delivery by removing the fuel line going to I guess the fuel rail? on the top front of the engine. When the key was turned on (but engine not cranking) I had no fuel. When the engine was turning over I seemed to have plenty of fuel coming thru the line.

I pulled a spark plug and cranked the engine looking for a spark. When cranking, the spark was more of a yellow spark rather than the blue spark I was expecting. I then checked the Distributor Cap and rotor. (the cap and rotor are probably 18 months old but only a couple of thousand miles) The rotor itself looked black, burnt, sooty on the end and all of the contacts on the cap had a black burnt looking line where the rotor would have spun. I cleaned the rotor contact and the contacts on the cap and put it all back together.

After much cracking, the car started and again seemed to run fine, but when I turned it off and tryed to restart it the car was extremely hard to start.

can anyone tell me does the car need the new cap and rotor or is the black arcing normal? Does it seem like i am on the right track? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 

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In Tank Fuel Pump Fuel Line

This sounds like the typical split fuel line that is in the fuel tank. Works well when car is running but makes for a hard start. Do a search and i think Alfisto Steve did a writeup on how to fix it.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/164023-coulda-bought-red-pug-but-got-red-s.html

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/79130-usa-164-12v-steel-fuel-tank-internal-plumbing.html

I think it is hose #21 that usually has a split in it and causes the hard start i've had same problem on 3 or 4 of my 164's

Sandro
 

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As for dizzy cap check spring loaded carbon button in center of cap. It should be spring loaded and it should protrude about 1/4" or more so it will push into center of rotor button.

As for fuel flow you need about 8 oz in 15 seconds and you also need 35 to 40 psi of pressure and if fuel hose is split inside tank you won't get enough pressure.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks everyone for the help. The center button on the cap does stick out about 1/4 inch and is spring loaded I guess my biggest concern was the carbon buildup on the rotor tip and inside the cap. I have a late night at work tonight but tomorrow I'll get into it and see what is happening
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I worked on the 164 this evening, took all the trunk lining out and removed all of the hex screws. The deeper I got into this the more I realized it is a weekend project not a after work project.

I do have a couple of questions: Do i need a specific hose or will any parts store fuel line work? How bad does a crack need to be to affect the operation?
 

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You will need to order the Gates 5/16" Submersible fuel line (I have a part number in a thread somewhere). It has fuel proof rubber compound on the inside and outside. I scored some from my local O'Reilly's Auto Parts. They had to order it for me though. My original section of cloth covered hose looked fine (you can't really tell when it's cloth covered). Any little cracks in it though will cause loss of fuel pressure so it doesn't even have to be truly split. When I took mine off, it didn't really look too bad. When that little section of hose was left to dry out of its gasoline over a few days after it's removal, it shrunk up into a hose made of stone and then you could really see how old and bad it was. My car started so much better after it's replacement. DO consider replacing the fuel pump while you are there, because you WILL NOT want to do this again. The pump assembly it NOT easy to get out and you will not enjoy the fumes. DO take precautions, like wearing a vapor mask if you like your lungs (a one time use mask is worth the minimal cost). Working in the trunk is not fun either. I would have spare parts on hand before removing the screws to the pump assembly (or it will have to sit there smelling very strongly for several days while you wait for parts, that may be hard to find). Order a rubber pump mount, plastic basket (in case you break it trying to getting it out), rubber pad for the bottom of the basket, a new fuel pump, I would even get a new check valve. Do all this and never touch that stuff again. It is the single most important thing to get accomplished (besides the timing belt of course) for many more years of reliable service from your 164, IMHO. You will feel a difference from the seat of your pants as well. :D
Charles
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hard starting 164L

Got the pump out of the tank this morning. You all were right, the short cloth covered hose was cracked, the Pan was full of sand/mud/gunk the clips on the side of the pan were broken so the PO had two sheet metal screws through the spring and into the pan clearance was definitely an issue. After slicing the tip of my finger, I also found the spring must be made from the same material as a gingsu knife. I also managed to break one of the wire connectors for the fuel pump. The PO told me he had removed the tank just before I bought it and had it boiled and coated and a new fuel pump installed. I can tell someone had been there before but I'm not too impressed with their skills.

Now the questions:
- Are these parts available thru the usual aftermarket suppliers?
- The hoses on the outside of the tan are all hard and brittle how difficult is it to replace these?
- Does anyone sell a complete kit, from the cover to basket and all the internal hoses?
 

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Part number: 00605720490000
Part description Z GASKET Pump rubber mounting bushing
Part number: 00823936010000
Part description Z FUEL FILTER basket
Part number: 00607773470000
Part description HOSE PER METER in tank hose Use Gates submersible SAE30R10 5/16" if possible.

Many of our Alfa parts vendors should have these parts.

As for the two external molded elbows in fuel vent system they are pretty hard to come by and rest of black tubing above tank in trunk is not rubber.

here are some links that might help:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/79130-usa-164-12v-steel-fuel-tank-internal-plumbing.html

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/41575-alfa-164-12v-usa-model-fuel-pump-steel-gas-tank.html
 
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