[wonderbrad]

Hey all,
Well, it had to eventually happen, but my trusty GTV6 failed to start this morning. Normally I wouldn't be that upset, but the car is in a parking garage where I put it to keep it away from Hurricane Irene, and when I went to get the car today, it cranks, and initially seemed to start right up, but then died. Further cranking the car would sputter, but then kept dying. Now I crank it and it doesn't catch at all. So it seems to be related to fuel delivery, right? The car is stuck in the garage and it's costing me 40 clams a day as long as it's there. The car has been inside since saturday, and I'm pretty sure there is fuel in the tank unless someone siphoned it out. I'm not sure if it's the fuel pump that just gave up the ghost or what...I tried starting it with and without the cold injector pump plugged in, but it made no difference.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[ghnl]

I would confirm there is fuel in the tank. Do you keep the gas cap locked? If not (or especially if you discover it is now broken...) I'd suspect thievery. Part of the pre-storm hype was about gas stations being closed during any lengthy power outages.

If you confirm there is gas in the tank (I'd add a couple of gallons to be sure) you can remove the air duct from the AFM (air flow meter), switch on the ignition then reach into the AFM and move the flap. With the AFM's flap 'open' & ignition on you should be able to hear the fuel pump running and feel the fuel flowing through the fuel lines.

I'm not sure about the GTV6 but I do know that the L-jetronic system in the Spider requires 10.5V or greater for the computers to wake up and send the spark/fuel signals (Spider L-jet has two computers). If the GTV6 is similar (I would assume so) know that a marginal battery can sound like it is cranking the engine with good vigor yet system voltage could easily be below the computer's threshold. Connect a voltmeter to the battery (or the main cable on the firewall so you can see the voltmeter from the driver's seat) and note what it reads during cranking. Try jumping with a known good battery?

If you have fuel & a functioning fuel pump and proper system voltage during cranking then move on to ignition (or lack of). Unfortunately I don't know all the details of the GTV6's ignition system. I do know clean electrical connections are vital.

 

[dsb_dsb]

The 10.5V battery voltage thing is interesting. I have been fighting something similar recently, using a 'known good' Alfa to troubleshoot one that won't start by swapping parts (ECU, combo relay, AFM) between cars.

If it started and quit, it probably was running off fuel injected by the cold start injector. If you kept trying and it wouldn't fire at all anymore, it probably became flooded. I had that happen to my 'known good' afla, which surprised me. Just had to let it air out for a while and then it would start.

 

[wonderbrad]

Yes, I am at work now but I will go back and try again tonight. Never had it flood before...but it's possible.

 

[GVVGTV6]

I'd check the fuse box first might be #5 or #8, last year I had the same prob. the fuse looked okay visually but was actual bad/cracked.

check Roll-over switch

GV

 

[kredden]

As said previously, check the voltage first. Second check for flooding. I had the exact same symptoms on the GTV6 I bought last year. PO couldn't get it to start so I got a better deal, checked voltages, grounds etc while in his garage. Got in, floored the pedal cranked for a little while and then she fired right up and ran great.

Kevin

 

[ToonRboy]

All good points - but why complicate matters? It's a friggin' car man! Go pick it up with a (filled) gas can, jumper cables, and a friend w/his or her car.
1) Add gas to tank
2) Start car with jumpers attached while friend revs jumper vehicle to 2500rpm.

 

[HeavyMetalAlfa]

Bradley called from the parking garage, I told him to bypass the fuel pump relay. That is the most common reason for GTV6's not getting fuel, I have bought a dozen of them that people were going to junk cause they wouldn't start. I take a 4 foot piece of wire, go from the battery, over the rear seat, take out seat bottom, look for wires going through the floor on the pass side, cut away the elec tape and tap into what is usually a pink/black wire. In Bradleys case it was a white wire.
In my own GTV6's, I like to bypass the problematic double relay and have the fuel pump turn on with the key, saves having this issue pop up. I offer that to my customers, but some people get freaked about bypassing relays. There is not enough of a power spike/draw from the pump to hurt the Ignition switch, I have several 100K miles with bypasses on the Blue Meanie and Blackie, my old fave GTV6.

 

[ToonRboy]

My fuel pump goes on when in "acc" position, but i don't think the relay is bypassed. I think it's a switch mod in the AFM. So I can hear the fuel pump without actually cranking - which is good. On the other hand, fuel pump would be running when parked and listening to radio when engine is off - not so good. So i use me iPod in that condition ;p

 

[86spider]

If it is like the L-jet in a Spider the relay will de-energize in the event of an accident and the engine stops. No ignition signal = no fuel pump operation.

 

[ToonRboy]

I think what you're referring to is the "roll-over" switch. When that gets popped - as in case of accident, it too, disables the fuel pump. Not the ignition.

Experience goes a long way and if HeavyMetal says jump the fuel pump relay, I wouldn't argue. I just like to test to make sure (as ghnl suggested) before I go off half-****ed pulling out the rear seats-n-such.

I have to admit having worked in the parking industry, I have seen rabbits, rats, and other such wire nibbling critters in multi-level downtown parking facilities before. And with the GTV6 having an external fuel pump with wires hanging out - that would be something I'd check if I don't hear it coming on.

 

[HeavyMetalAlfa]

Ya, those "roll over" switches are usually disabled early in the cars life. I have hit bumps that triggered them. I think they call them "inertia switches" as well.
You can test the fuel pump by taking a hot lead under the car to the fuel pump positive terminal, it's just that going under the rear seat is MUCH easier. It is hard to tell if the fuel pump comes on when cranking, as the noise of the starter masks the fuel pump sound. I have had a great many instances when the fuel pump didn't come on, almost always it was the double relay, sometimes the fuse and a couple times rodent damage.
When it comes to diagnosing GTV6 no starts, I always check fuel pump first, spark second, ecu, distributor trigger and down the line. Usually turns out to be one of the first two.

 

[rustysrustyduc]

Just out of curiosity, did you get this fixed?

My car had a similar problem. In fact, the PO didn't drive it for ten years because of this and other problems. My ignition switch was *funky*. You could easily tell something was up because the seatbelt buzzer would be silent sometimes, and buzzing at other times. After a while I starting jiggling the wires going to the switch, and when the buzzer went off, I knew it was good to go.

Just a funny way to diagnose that little problem.

 

[86spider]

In my 86 Spider there isn't an inertia switch. The system relies on the ignition pulses from the coil to keep the system on. If the engine stops then the ignition pulses stop then the fuel pump stops.