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Discussion Starter #1
I had a starter for a GTV6 rebuilt by my local electric shop, who has rebuilt a good number of Bosch starters & alternators for me over the past few years. This one has a strange problem. It runs on (keeps turning after you release the key) only when bolted in the car, & no, it's nothing to do with the car's wiring. I hot wired it directly from a spare battery with none of the car's wiring attached, & it still ran on. However, on the bench, it works fine.

A search of the archives on both the GTV6 & Milano boards shows this exact problem occuring on a regular basis. None has posted a solution.

I traced the root cause to the aftermarket solenoid used in the rebuild. It is slightly different from the OEM Bosch unit, & as a result, the bendix does not travel all the way to the end of the shaft when engaged. With an old OEM solenoid on the rebuilt starter, I get full travel from the bendix, & the starter works just fine both on & off the car. Of course, the car's owner does not want a 30-year-old solenoid on his freshly rebuilt starter.

The main body of the aftermarket solenoid is slightly larger than the OEM, & the plunger assembly is longer. I figured that by shimming the solenoid where it bolts to the starter, I could get full travel from the bendix, & indeed, I was able to do this successfully. However, despite having full travel from the bendix, the starter still ran on with the aftermarket solenoid when bolted in the car.

Has anyone else dealt with this problem? Can anyone recommend a solution other than scouring the globe for an original Bosch solenoid? The main difference between the original & the aftermarket solenoid is in the plunger assembly. Therefore, I am considering swapping the plunger from a dead OEM solenoid that I have into the aftermarket solenoid. My only concern here is that the main body of the aftermarket solenoid is slightly larger than the OEM. Has anyone done tried this with good or bad results?

Thanks in advance for any input.
 

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I have seen this before, in some cases, where I have to disconnect the battery to get the starter to stop. I don't have a good solution. It sounds like you are the closest to figuring this one out. We are all counting on you!

Greg
 

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I thought I was the only one with this problem, I had two starters rebuilt twice trying to solve this. My final resolution was to source a different used starter. Works like a charm and I have two beautifully rebuilt and to me useless starters.

Jeff
 

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Hi Jxochipili

Where are you located? Also, on your two non usable rebuilt starters can you identify the brand and part number of the solenoids? Are they Zender units by chance?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Resolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It turns out I was on the right path with shimming the solenoid. I just hadn't walked it far enough.

Milanoguy, who has been helping me with this, took another starter core to an electric shop I used to use a while back (The reason I no longer use them is simply due to location). That guy has a lathe on which he made a shim that was significantly thicker than what I was using. It was thick enough that the original solenoid mounting screws were too short. So he had to take screws that were too long, & cut them to length. There are only about 4 threads to grab on the body of the solenoid, & you can't run screws that are too long into the solenoid.

That 2nd rebuilt starter with the same aftermarket solenoid & the larger shim worked like a charm. I don't yet know the exact dimensions of the shim as I haven't had a chance to talk to the guy who made it. I'm going to have him make some more shims, & I'm going to use one on the 1st starter I had rebuilt to make sure I can repeat that success.

WARNING!!!! Do not make a shim such as this if you are using an OE Bosch solenoid on your starter. You would probably do some sort of damage, or the starter contacts may not touch when the solenoid is engergized. The solenoids I'm using are the ZM brand, part #245-24034.

BTW, my experiment of swapping the plunger from the Bosch solenoid into the aftermarket solenoid failed. The dimensions were different enough that, when the solenoid was energized, the plunger did not have sufficient travel for the starter's contacts to touch. So, the bendix would engage, but the starter would not spin up.
 

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Thanks Guys,

I had posted a similar question in the last few days. Got referred to this page. First couple of times, it cured itself within seconds. Last incident involved putting the GTV6 in neutral, while it merrily cranked away, and me sprinting back into the house for a wrench and flashlight to disconnect the battery.

As I set the flashlight down to wrestle off the cable, I could see a faint red glow where the ground cable meets the sheet metal of the battery cavity! Hope I don't have melted wires the length of the car!

Your solution will certainly be added to my list of cures. I did have a new solenoid put on recently. Don't know if it was Bosch, or aftermarket? But will find that out soon.

Thanks again for your going out ahead, and finding a possible starting point to check into... before throwing a hand grenade under the hood and running for cover.

Peter
 

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Thank goodness we have a shop here in Williston Vermont Boyer Circle to fix these things. They rebuilt my Montreal Solenoid and they are not expensive
 

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Yup, John...

That's where I took my starter to get rebuilt (w/ new solenoid). So I've yet to determine whether the new (poss aftermarket brand) installed is the culprit. Or something else like a bad ignition switch, etc.

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The Bosch solenoids have been NLA for some time, but you may find one on someone's shelf. The client for whom I did this work bought a new OEM solenoid from John Norman to have on hand just in case (his GTV6 is his everyday car). He paid a lot for it, & I'm not sure if John has any more.

If the solenoid was replaced when your starter was rebuilt, it was almost certainly aftermarket.

There are some components that can be cleaned/refurbished in the original solenoids. Most notably, you can clean and/or flip over the main contacts in order to get a fresh surface on them. However, if the coil goes open or shorts, there's no repairing that. In my situation, the coil had shorted.
 

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Hey Planet Mojo

You said
".......and me sprinting back into the house for a wrench and flashlight to disconnect the battery. "
Get yourself a battery disconnection knob, saves you running around like a jackass. All cars should have these.

Bye
 

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Hey Milano

My brother had made the very same recommendation, not two hours ago.

Didn't know I'd be needing that feature. After nearly a dozen GTV6s in my yard, over the years, this was my first adventure in seeing if I could complete a task before my car burnt to the ground.

And thanks for the extra tip, Michael. I do have a few extra solenoids lying around, on my GTV6 bone cars. I would expect those are all the original Bosch units. Is there a way to bench test those to see if I'm replacing my (useless) brand new shiny chrome aftermarket solenoid, with a good original used one... If I took a few Bosch solenoids to the starter rebuilder to test? I'm certainly no wizard, when it comes to electrical/electronic stuff.

Thanks Guys!
 

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Thanks for posting this information. I took a starter to a local rebuild shop with a copy of these posts. The guy at the shop did not know about the problem. I picked up the starter today and he said that the information is right on the money. He also said that this aftermarket solenoid is the only one that he can get.
 

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Hello, sorry to bring up an old post, but was the shim dimensions ever posted? I've run into the same problem of the starter running on and had the rebuilder replace the solenoid twice with the ZM brand, not knowing this is a known issue. Thanks in advance.
 

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I sold the starter with the shim on the ABB a few months ago, probably to Horsewidower. Maybe he will measure it for you.
 
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