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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all, In putting this 84" GTV6 together, as it was missing several items inc. the Trans Axle, (now a Platinum unit), I find that the Engine is Bad, with the head gasket blown, ( Gasket Herniated), on the right side and very bad compression on the left side. I have decided, rather than dumping dollars into a 2.5ltr, I will go with a 3.0ltr. (164 engine)
I have Two Questions right now:
#1, After just struggling with the driveshaft install, can I remove and reinstall the engine without removing the drive shaft?
#2, I Have an 3.0 Engine lined-up, Common-sense is telling me that I will need the entire Engine Wiring Harness, including the ECU, to run this, or: Can I use the existing 2.5 GTV6 engine Wiring Harness and ECU, and expect proper 3.0ltr performance. In other word's, I know the intake of a 164 engine is completely different from the 2.5, can I transfer the 2.5 intake over to the 3.0? any Advise would be appreciated. Bob Lesher in Oregon
 

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Yes you must use the existing Bosch setup!! You have to because you must use the distributor from the 2.5 the 164 one will not fit. Hole is there and you must make a plate to cover the 164 distributor hole. Can't use the stock 164 setup. Notice on the picture below. The distributor will hit your firewall, it's got to go. Just use the wiring, plenum, air intake and ECUs that are already in the car. Using the stock 2.5 BOSCH system is totality compatible with a 3.0 and will not effect the performance. That's what's GiGi's got in here car. A buddy of mine has to make a plate for his conversion and I got one on GiGi, I'll have him make 2 if you wish?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
AlfasRule!
Thank you, but I can machine the plate my self no problem. Good info on the Bosch set up, ty. Sorry about first edit I read it too fast.
Bob
 

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There's a lot of work to be done to take the Motronic 3.0 which is mounted transversely in the 164 and configure it for longitudinal service in a GTV6. If you had a hard time with a driveshaft, you may be biting off more than you can chew.

The 164 distributor is mounted on the rear cam on the 164. In this pic you can kinda see it. When you turn motor 90° there won't be any room for it. Also, the wiring harness/ECU will all be too short. Which is too bad as a 164S motor complete would really be something!
1991_Alfa-164V6.jpg

3.0 conversion of this type has been done & documented on this board. You should do an advanced search and probably find everything you're looking for as far as what has to be done/transferred over.

The smarter move is to use the 3.0 from the Verde. Direct swap for the most part.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ToonRboy
Anything can be done with enough willpower and $$$, I probably overstated the driveshaft thing. Impossible, no. Pain in the a** absolutely. If I can successfully drop a 2.5 16v Volvo boat motor in a p1800 or a Vr6 in a sunbeam alpine, or a 3.0 busso in a Ghia 1500GT with dcnf carbs, this conversion won't be a problem.
Unfortunately Verde motors are rare and 164 3.0l are plentiful and cheap. I will go with the 2.5 Bosch set up like Alfasrule.
Thank you.
Bob
 

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Kevin Redden - Kredden, did a good write up the 164 conversion a few years ago. You should be able to find it with the search function. Also search on flywheels and pulleys.
 

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Here you go:

Alfa Milano Registry - Verde Rebuild Finishing Up

Was for Milano but essentially the same. I dropped a 3.0L into my GTV6 and while you should probably swap out the ECU and other related parts for Verde ones I didn't bother and it is running fine. I may eventually do it but haven't noticed any ill side effects in the years that I've had it in there.

Kevin
 

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To answer your first question - yes you can remove the engine w/o removing the drive shaft. Had to do that on the GTV6 to fix the rear main seal I mis-installed during the build.
 

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You will need a Milano flywheel that is balanced for 3.0 and your engine will run smoother if you fit a Milano Verde pulley.
 

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I'm avidly watching this journey. I've got both a 3.0 12v and a 24v at my disposal and a Maratonna...
 

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Rob Steele has a GTV6 with a 24V motor running megasquirt.
 

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It wasn't clear from the original post by alfanatic, if he was proposing a 12v or 24v 3.0 engine from a 164. Not sure if that affects any of the advice offered, or not?

I'm very slowly puttering on a 24v transplant for a GTV6. I think I may have nearly all of the required conversion bits saved aside. My main puzzlement at this point is dealing with the intake plenum. I've seen pix of several variations on how that's been accomplished. All seem to involve going to a K&N style cone air filter. The FWD 3.0 engine has the intake plenum offset from center (where the GTV6 has the plenum centered on the engine). Employing the K&N setup may be my only option. I'd prefer to also have the option of retaining the original GTV6 air filter box when I arrive at that decision.

Has anyone seen that conversion using the original air box??

Thanks, Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I will be using a 12 valve 3.0ltr engine from a 164.
Can anyone provide me with the 4mm Spacer needed to use the GTV6 flywheel on the 3.0ltr engine. Thanks all. Bob
 

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Hi Bob,

I've done a couple of these. Great conversion; just a tip: if you can, use the flywheel and front pulley off the same engine, as they are balanced together. Saves getting things re-balanced.

I also have a spare 4mm spacer. Posted to you for US$90 if you are interested.

Cheers
Steve
Adelaide
Australia
 

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just a tip: if you can, use the flywheel and front pulley off the same engine, as they are balanced together. Saves getting things re-balanced.
I believe that is incorrect. The 3L flywheel has a different balance than a 2.5. If you use a 2.5 flywheel it should be re-balanced to 3L. Alfar7 did mine. You can use a 2.5 pulley but you can expect to get vibrations that are not there with a 3L flywheel. Greg Sef has posted about this.
 

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It is a great opportunity to get the engine flywheel lightened. The flywheel on my 3.0 was from an auto and the 164 front pulley doesn't work so I gave a balance shop my 2.5 front pulley and flywheel, a spare crank (thanks Steve) and the 3.0 flywheel and pulley and the shop lightened the 2.5 flywheel and then balanced the 2.5 pulley and flywheel per the 3.0 pulley and crank. I think that was called blind balancing or the like? Anyway - it worked a treat and this is the time to do it!
Cheers
Marty
 
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