I have a 1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce. The welds failed where the top of the front springs connect to the chassis. No rust. Pictures show failure and repair with new plate welded in.
GTV front suspension weld failure
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Joined
·
420 Posts
In my opinion, and I've seen this failure before - this is caused by forces applied to the "chassis leg" (rail) by steering/idler box loading. The steering forces flex the chassis leg and break it from the cross member. So, any stiffening of the legs (common practice) should also come with reinforcing the cross member connection as you have done.
Joined
·
26,226 Posts
Nice work.
Alfa knew by 1965 that the two-bolt dogbone attachment setup was tearing out of the chassis and causing cracks like this. There's a service bulletin on it. In some cases the whole crossmember tore and and had to be replaced. I had a TI that looked like the fixit work had been done at a shipyard with an arc welder.
Solved in 1967 I guess when the four-bolt dogbones came in and related changes. But this, alas, is not unusual.
Andrew
Alfa knew by 1965 that the two-bolt dogbone attachment setup was tearing out of the chassis and causing cracks like this. There's a service bulletin on it. In some cases the whole crossmember tore and and had to be replaced. I had a TI that looked like the fixit work had been done at a shipyard with an arc welder.
Solved in 1967 I guess when the four-bolt dogbones came in and related changes. But this, alas, is not unusual.
Andrew
Joined
·
276 Posts
I'm sorry but the 2 vs 4 bolts issue has nothing to do with the location of this crack. This has more to do with fatigue... the car has probably been driven fast on a lot of bad roads during her lifetime.
JockR should check at the inside of the engine bay if any cracks are visible at the same area.
Joined
·
6,334 Posts
I personally did not do the welding, but yes
This is a common issue on early cars in particular, (including early 4-bolt cars) all the way up to around 69/70 where the factory added some internal reinforcing plates inside the chassis legs. On these later cars with the modified location you can see the raised shape of the internal reinforcing pressed into the chassis rail area around the cross-member location.
Check out a 2000 model and you will see it easily. Hard-used late cars still had some of these issues anyway, particularly with larger tires and wheel offsets.
You have done the right thing anyway.
Check out a 2000 model and you will see it easily. Hard-used late cars still had some of these issues anyway, particularly with larger tires and wheel offsets.
You have done the right thing anyway.
Just drove it this past weekend for the first time since repair. Didn’t feel out of alignment.
probably should get it done.
2015 Chevy (Holden) SS, 1989 Milano (Shankle Sport), 1991 164S
Joined
·
18,951 Posts
There have been cases in just about every Alfa model where Alfa misjudged the level of the front suspension loads going into the adjacent sheet metal, and used metal which was too thin, and not reinforced enough. Thus cracks in the sheet metal and attached members.
Joined
·
88 Posts
This Alfa 105 model was built to be driven on the street, with factory size tires, springs, and shocks.
Unfortunately, many have suffered various injuries running hard with "performance" gas shocks, low/stiff springs, and 205 series tires.
If you wanted to street, club, or especially vintage race, you should have originally had your seams welded and added some reinforcement.
Alfas that had remained originally equipped don't have the cracks.
Unfortunately, many have suffered various injuries running hard with "performance" gas shocks, low/stiff springs, and 205 series tires.
If you wanted to street, club, or especially vintage race, you should have originally had your seams welded and added some reinforcement.
Alfas that had remained originally equipped don't have the cracks.
Alfas that had remained originally equipped don't have the cracks.
[/QUOTE]
Er, yes they do....sometimes dependent on how hard the car was used, but it was/is so common many spares places have offered reinforcement kits over the years. Plus the factory added such things internally to cars from early 70s onward to help, but it did not eliminate it entirely. Virtually all early pre-70s will have cracks of some extent, unless the cars has never been driven. The factory even printed dealer service bulletins on corrective measures for the problem.
[/QUOTE]
Er, yes they do....sometimes dependent on how hard the car was used, but it was/is so common many spares places have offered reinforcement kits over the years. Plus the factory added such things internally to cars from early 70s onward to help, but it did not eliminate it entirely. Virtually all early pre-70s will have cracks of some extent, unless the cars has never been driven. The factory even printed dealer service bulletins on corrective measures for the problem.
Joined
·
88 Posts
I have two 105 Alfas that never had cracks. One has over 100K miles.
We have seen many 105 Alfas with no cracks and many with cracks.
Over the years, since all that had the cracks and needed repair were either driven very hard or had the before mentioned non-original parts or tires, so we figured that the changes had something to do with it.
We have seen many 105 Alfas with no cracks and many with cracks.
Over the years, since all that had the cracks and needed repair were either driven very hard or had the before mentioned non-original parts or tires, so we figured that the changes had something to do with it.
On a fifty year old car with multiple owners, chances are good things have been changed. Clearly a weak spot if it only stays together with specific parts.
2015 Chevy (Holden) SS, 1989 Milano (Shankle Sport), 1991 164S
Joined
·
18,951 Posts
Esp a car intended to be driven with at least a little enthusiasm. I know, I drove a stock Sprint GT for over 200k miles. Cracks, yes, front suspension for one, early on, fixed, among other failures, and I didn't drive it hard like some, just fast.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
