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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi there, I'm looking for some advice on buying a 1974 gtv 2000. It has some rust underneath the front grille and I'm not sure how much it affects the car. The car is registered and driven on weekends but the owner is unsure if it can get a roadworthy certificate which is necessary when changing ownerships. I've attached some photos of the rust that's visible, hope the photos are ok. Is this a common place for rust? Is it most likely a structural/chassis rust? How expensive is it to fix?

thank you.
 

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Welcome to the board. It is hard to see how structural, but rust in that area should be relatively easy to fix. Having said that, if you have rust there, I would check the rest of the car for rust really carefully. Rockers are likely to be affected as well. Also check the floor boards, under the spare tire and around the windows
 

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That amount of rust looks like a non-issue. What you want to check as mentioned above are the "rockers" on the sides of the car. In the GTV they are a structual foundation for the vehicle and there are 3 - inner, outer and middle. I believe parts cost about $1500 for both sides. Also check out the jacking points of which there are 4 - 2 on each side. The rockers rust from inside out so it's hard to determine how bad it is from just looking. If it looks bad on the outside, you can bet it's worse inside.
 

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If I am interpreting your photos correctly, the area under the grill that's pictured is not structural and in and of itself should not be a concern, but it does indicate that other areas are likely to have been affected. The other posts have suggested other usual areas of rust. I would add that you would be well advised to have the car put up on a lift and look carefully @ the rockers, floors, jacking points and sway bar mounts. (If you can, go to a person who is familiar with GTVs and can spot areas that mayt have been repaired earlier).
 

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The rust is on the support of the radiator, which happens to be the attaching point for the fron stabilizer bar. You can check if this bar is still correctly attached to the car.
 

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One other area to check and not yet mentioned is the rear vent windows. Pop them open and look underneath the weatherstrip on the bottom side especially towards the rear.
 

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From what I can tell from the photos I consider that rust to be structural in that it looks like the integity of the radiator support member is not as it should be-this is an attachment piece for the front anti roll bar brackets and in NZ if I were conducting a WOF (warrant of fitness check) as I used to in my workshop it would be a rejection item-the bottom of the front valance needs to come off and this cross member repaired. Not on itself a serious problem but needs to be fixed and may be an indication of other body maladies-strongly suggest you get it up on a hoist and get it checked by an expert-rust never sleeps so things only get worse-if the rest is sound it is a great bargaining point.

Richard J
`65 Giulia Ti 1600, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thanks for all the replies. I've been a bit busy with work but managed to find a '68 Giulia Sprint GTV which, along with the information from here, convinced me that getting the '74 model, which I was talking about originally, is not worth it.

alfavirusnz, I think you're pretty much on the money, it sounded to me it would be something along those lines. The '74 is at a pretty good price at the moment but if I have to fix that rust to get it on the road it stops being such a good deal. My intention is to use it not restore it at this stage. The car has some other rust spots, right underneath the left door, bottom left corner. Doesn't seem very major. There's a layer of mud and rubbish underneath the front bumper, interior is pretty badly worn, the clutch and the brake are resting in forward position, front seats reupholstered with blue velour -- it hasn't been taken care of really, but it was still fun to drive.

Like i said, last night I found a '68 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce. This car is well preserved, rides smoothly, a bit of rust on the bootlid but the owner will throw in the original rust free bootlid too (colour is not the same as the body on that one).

Now is there anything else to keep in mind with this older GTV? How would you compare the general characteristics of the 2 cars? I do prefer the 71-74 gtv but would be more than happy owning a '68 too. Maybe because it was in such a good condition but I was having less fun driving it - felt that I needed to be much more careful.

From all the books about Alfa's on amazon which one is a good one to get? (That would ideally cover all the 105 series).

Thanks again, all this information is coming in handy, I really was surprised to see so many replies so quickly.
 

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Welcome to the board. It is hard to see how structural, but rust in that area should be relatively easy to fix ...
Hmmm ... underneath (the '74) will probably be:

Which probably requires a new front cross member, etc.:

Then:


Good choice buying the '68 :).
Pete
 

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Wherabouts are you? 1968 was the first of the 1750`s but not quite sure what 105 version you are talking about. Has it got an exposed leading edge to the bonnet (hood) or has it got a smoothed over front like the later car you looked at?
The earlier cars despite similar appearance are quite different to drive and if in std factory form are mechanically different in areas such as engine size, roll centre for both front and rear suspension , are smaller in the brakes, have narrower tyre width, and will not have a limited slip differential or the same gear and rear axle ratios. Driving technique even is different. If it is the last of the 1600 GTV`s (exposed bonnet edge-we in the Alfa community call them stepnoses) you have got a desirable car-arguably more desirable than a 2litre GTV.

Regards
Richard J
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The '68 is a stepnose. Originally a 1600, it has a 1750 engine, which fits in there without modification, and looks the same as the 1600 engine. If I remember correctly he said that other 1750 engines are a bit higher and the bonnet needs modification to fit it in (?). The seats are black leather also from a 1750 and look spotless. He has the original tan seats packed up in boxes, they also looked to be in very condition. I'm going on my limited knowledge here but interior didn't seem to be missing anything either, comparing that to the '74 which had quite a few "placeholders".

cheers,
 

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congrats on your '68, that sounds like a great find!
 

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Kuda had written: "Originally a 1600, it has a 1750 engine, which fits in there without modification, and looks the same as the 1600 engine. If I remember correctly he said that other 1750 engines are a bit higher and the bonnet needs modification to fit it in"

Sorry, that statement doesn't make sense. Alfa only made one type of 1750 (which actually displace 1779 cc's) all with an 80mm bore and 88.5mm stroke (the stroke is what determines the engine's height).

You may have been told that it is harder to transplant 2 liter (actually 1962 cc) into an early 105, though height isn't the issue - the 2 liters have the same 88.5mm stroke as the 1750's. The issue on 2L transplants is the different crankshaft-flywheel bolt pattern, making it harder to use the early cars' mechanical clutches.

Anyhow, congratulations on you new acquisition!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks Peter, I did end up putting up a deposit on it last night, should have it in a week or 2.

alfavirusnz, I'm from Melbourne, Australia.

Alfajay, I see, is there a difference in height inbetween these 2...





The one in my car is more like the first...
 

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Kuda had written: "Alfajay, I see, is there a difference in height inbetween these 2..."

Kuda: In your two photos, it isn't that the engine is higher in the white car - it's that the body is lower. You are comparing a spider (white car) to a GTV or Berlina (silver car). Engine-to-hood clearance is tighter in a spider, because the fenders and hood slope down to the front.

Honest, all 1750's have the same stroke, and as such, the same height.
 

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Kuda you`re close enough to almost be a Kiwi. 1750 is a nice motor, perhaps the pick of them for a road car and in reality most can`t tell what size engine it is so originality (which is in reality what effects value) isn`t really compromised too much. If you can get your hands on a June `03 Auto Italia magazine there is an excellent comparison between the 105 Giulia coupes.
You`ve done the right thing -gone for the best body.
Regarding your comment re interior storage the early cars were quite austere with no console/bin around the centre. Later cars were more luxo/Grand Tourer as the market had moved from the pure sports coupe demand-witness the social change and growth in wealth in this period from early `60`s to early `70`s.
Was given the 2 part book Alfa Downunder by my son a few weeks ago (was over playing rep rugby against Queensland)-might be being discounted now as bought really cheap in Brisbane.It is an interesting read and can recommend.

Richard J

`65 Giulia Ti 1600, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Alfajay, I don't have a reason not to believe you, but there is a visual difference in those 2 photos, the intake manifold (?) going across the engine in the first photo is not there in the 2nd. So what I've been told is that the first photo - resembles - the original 1600 engine more. As for actual height and need for modification I will ask him on what exactly he meant next time I see him. It could've been that he was adding a few extra "features".

Also thanks alfavirusnz for all the info again. I've found that magazine online and will look for the book in local bookshops.

Does anyone know what size wheels come with a '68 GTV, 15" or 14"?

cheers,
 

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15`s on the earlier 105`s-your `68 is one of the last of that 1st series.

Richard J

`65 Giulia Ti 1600, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV , `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6
 
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