Alfa Romeo Forums banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I took a GTV 2000 out for a test drive today and was expecting to come out grinning but that didn't happen. Wanted to get some feedback from other GTV drivers on what I should expect.

I was prepared for the quirkiness of any classic car but when I hit the gas it didn't seem to have much power. The exhaust made some good noise, the tach rev'd up but the car felt like the e-brake was slightly on or something (it wasn't :).

I'm not comparing it to anything modern. My experience is mainly with Triumphs and I've had fun riding in cars from Big Healeys to 356s. Any classic car is great to me.

Now I didn't get to stretch its legs, didn't make it into 4th gear or over 45mph, so do I need to get this car out on the open road, keep the revs high and throw it through some turns to see what a GTV is all about? Or should I feel the torque of the 2 liter from the start?

One more thing, this car has EFI (coil pack, ECU, crank sensor, etc..) and was tuned and dyno'd by a pro race shop specializing in Alfas even. So maybe I was expecting more. By the way, before the drive I did at least took a compression test, 135-145 across.

Thanks for any advice
 

·
Premium Member
71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
Joined
·
6,665 Posts
135 isn't a lot. If mine had that I'd consider getting back to normal but that's just me. I'm running cams with 252 degrees of duration and 86 crankshaft degrees of overlap and still get 180 on each cylinder. It does have motronic pistions.
You might want to ask if they put a 410 rear end in the car, that would make is slower off the line but give it great legs on the freeway.
I have a spider with a 456 rear end and identical motor except the spider has webers, off the line it's a rocket compared to the GTV with the 410. I have no way of knowing how well the efi is set up or how it's set up so there are a lot of variables here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,113 Posts
Hi mate, further to what Gigem mentioned, yes the other thing as you have already noted is 45 isn't that fast, but more importantly to get to understand what a 105 Alfa GTV is all about go for a decent run in the hills, find some corners and give it a good squirt. Alfas come alive and communicate to the driver under such conditions, use the gears, and bear in mind that while a basically standard 2L has torque it doesn't rev out quite like say a 1750 does.

The last thing again to bear in mind is that in todays terms a relatively standard 105 is not going to feel like a pocket rocket like many a modern car. You need to think back to what the 60s and 70s were like.

On the other hand, if you had a ride in Gigs 105s you might have a totally different understanding of what can be done with them to make them go hard.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,190 Posts
135-145 is on the low side. Did you measure it with the throttle wide open? If not, that might account for the low readings.

The first thing I was going to ask is what you are comparing it to, but seems like you've already answered that question.

So, I will risk banishment from the Alfa community by stating flat out that these cars generally suck off the line. First gear is generally useless, but for me the fun doesn't really begin until you're at 3-4k rpm in 3rd gear.

Was it a US model car? They had slightly flatter cams than the Eueo cars.

A properly tund GTV in stock form should feel pretty strong in 2nd gear and higher, at more than 20 mph. At 45 mph you should have gotten a little feel for it. Perhaps it does have a taller rear end, as has been suggested.

My .02,

bs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Only 45mph? As mentioned earlier, these cars are a lot of fun in the twisties, but I would really suggest that you wind it up a bit more. I drive up the nearby mountains at speeds approaching 160kph gps (about100 mph)on the straight when there's no traffic and go around many of the corners here at a maximum of about 60mph. Rubbish off the line with the 4.1 diff, but effortless power from 3rd onwards if everything's set up correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Personally I didn't buy a 105 for its speed off the lights. 3 reasons:

1. its the best looking car ever made - a sculpture on wheels
2. when given the opportunity it is a LOT of fun to drive. needs some revs, some corners, etc.. ..
3. i like fixing things

saying that, as everyone has said above, the compression test you took is low. Find another 105 with a better motor and take it for a good drive to appreciate it for what it is ..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
These replies help a lot! Totally agree with the previous post on the three points to own a 105. I feel that way exactly but having driven only one 105 I want to be sure I'm getting into a good example.

The current owner doesn't know the car technically, I should chat with the shop who did the work and try to find out about the diff, engine and what the tuning goals were.

The compression test was done with the throttle closed. I assumed 135-145 was OK since there's not much deviation but thanks for letting me know these engines should be making much more than that. I would do another test before totally writing it off. (The second hand info is that this engine was built by the Alfa mechanic Conrad Stevenson).

Yeah, a second drive outside of urban traffic sounds like a good idea.

Off topic, I want to keep looking for a good 105. If anyone knows of something available near the Seattle area please PM me.

Thanks!

I just recalled, the owner said he routinely starts off in 2nd (to avoid that 2nd gear synchro) and 80mph on the highway runs about 4000rpm. I'm betting that sound like a 4.10 diff, right?
 

·
Trained (ex)Professional, , 1953-2018 RIP
Joined
·
16,232 Posts
I took a GTV 2000 out for a test drive today...
One more thing, this car has EFI (coil pack, ECU, crank sensor, etc..)
Does this car have a Bosch injected engine from a later Spider? Or an aftermarket EFI system or something?

A suggestion might be to ask a local Alfista for their opinion after a drive or perhaps they would let you drive their Alfa for a comparison?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,350 Posts
I think it has a 4.56 rear end gear, as my fathers 1969 USA 1750 GTV has. It revs at 20 mph / 1000 rpm in 5th. My Euro 1750 GTV with 4.1 rear end gearing revs at 22 mph / 1000 rpm in 5th. This is all just theory as you could have a GTJr. transmission,or the wrong dia. tires, and the USA spec cars had optimistic speedos. I dont think Alfa changed the speedo drive gears when they built the USA cars with 4.56 rear gears. I think Alfa used the same speedo drive gears as the Euro cars with 4.1 rear ends. ?
 

·
Premium Member
71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
Joined
·
6,665 Posts
I'm getting 80mph at 4000 in 5th with a 410 Taking off in 2nd with a 410 probably puts more wear on the clutch than just shifting it easy into second. Either way a new clutch and gearbox rebuild are in that cars future. Well they are in all our cars future some sooner than others:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I guess it's not really possibly to guess about the drive train, too many variables. I agree on the future tranny rebuild, it's inevitable with this car.

So the car has an aftermarket Gotech EFI setup. In fact I found posts from 2006 about this very car here on the forums (more of a sales pitch for the gotech though), The forum wont let me post the link, but if you search for Gotech you'll see a plum colored GTV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
The speedo gearsets are different from 4.1 to 4.56 axles.
My speedo, set up for 4.1, is quite pessimistic in fact, by 5-10mph at euro highway speeds.
Starting in 2nd gear with a 4.1 is IMHO a pretty silly approach - as several have hinted, you may even be getting clutch slip.
For me, when "hard charging" with the 4.10, it's basically 2nd through 4th gears that are getting used, not much of 5th.
It's possible that the tach is off quite a bit, that can also affect your perception of the strength of the motor. Before I spent quite a bit of time adjusting it, my tach was almost 1500 rpm optimistic up around 6000. i.e. you could peg the tacho but you were really only doing about 6000 rpm. After adjustment I managed to get it to read 6500 at a real 7000 rpm. At least I know where my redline is now...
Cheers
Neil
PS No 2L alfa feels like a big healey in terms of low end torque, it's very different in terms of rpm range, torque curves, gearing, etc.
 

·
Premium Member
71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
Joined
·
6,665 Posts
sorry for the highjack but how did you adjust your tach? it's something I need to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
A tach (or speedo for that matter) can generally be messed with by playing with the distance between metal and permanent magnet discs inside the instrument. In the case of my tach ('74 vintage Jaeger cluster), I had some success by grinding off the pot metal mounting "rivets" that secure one of the discs, adding some washers over the remainder of the post, and epoxying it together. [clarification: the washers were probably 0.5mm thick approx, and were put between the disc and the mount, moving the disc closer to the instrument face.] You can see the disc (with two "ears" for the mounting points) in this grainy pic from my phone at the time.

That was the basic adjustment to get grossly into the right area. Basically this increased the distance between discs, reducing how much the needle was deflected.
I then experimented with prying that copper or brass sheet metal mounting point for the needle, either in one direction or the other, axially. If I remember right, it was VERY sensitive to this prying, and it took a lot of diddling about to get it more or less right (well, within 500 rpm at the top end...).

This was all comparing the tacho displayed speed with an electronic tach in a multimeter.

One of these years I'll try the same on the speedo I guess.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,747 Posts
And, 5th gear in a 4.10 differential is said to give 21.? mph per 1000 RPM, so that is likely what the car has. This ratio makes second gear starts even more abusive, and such a driving style would seem to make city driving an unpleasant chore.

... I just recalled, the owner said he routinely starts off in 2nd (to avoid that 2nd gear synchro) and 80mph on the highway runs about 4000rpm. I'm betting that sound like a 4.10 diff, right?
 

·
Premium Member
71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
Joined
·
6,665 Posts
82 gps @ 4000 in 5th is what I get with my 410. Best gun I ever owned as a kid was a double barrelled 410, great for rabbits, etc.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,350 Posts
I calculated 22.24mph/1000 in 5th with 4.1 rear and .79 5th and 195 60 15. Also 23.19mph/1000 with 195 70 14. Formuleas available on line or MPH=Diameter of tire inches x RPM / final x gear x 336
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,020 Posts
This car has an aftermarket Gotech EFI setup.
Greetings:

I have the "other" Gotech modified Alfa from Seattle, a 1976 Alfetta GTV. I have mixed feelings about the support (actually, total lack of) for the unit. Mine is an original box, the company has had numerous iterations and versions released over the past several years. I have been considering moving up to a newer ECu, but would like to see more support or maps and tuning guides. The latest software versions are from 2009.

Have you been into the ECU to tune it via a PC?

- Michael
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top