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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
I'm on the way to buy a dismantled GTAm engine for my GTAm Project. Most of the parts are in OK conditions however I have doubt regarding 2 components.

So, what's happened before there dismantled the engine ? Engine was freshly rebuilt and was reinstalled in the previous owner's GTAm, however bad fuel/air ratio and bad ignition settings lead to Detonation issues that made destruction of pistons material and potentially also hurt the Head chamber perimeter and Cylinder Monosleeve.
Here is pictures of destroyed piston surface :
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The 2 points that are still a question to me are :
1) Do you think that below detonation impact on the combustion chamber of the Head (see bottom of below picture) are jeopardizing the chance to reuse this Head ? Are these small trace of metal fusion possible to work out ?

IMG_2796.jpg


2) Do you think that the slight erosion of the superior edge of the Monosleeve (at the place of Detonation and material fusion) jeopardize the chance to reuse this Cylinder Monosleeve ? Are these small trace of metal fusion possible to work out ?
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All the others components seems really OK. And by the way, I have no questions regarding the pistons as new pistons are also included in the set.
Thanks in advance for your advise, comments or shared experiences !
 

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I'm no expert but surely the monoliner is no good now :(

Pete
 

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Is that liner erosion from detonation or contact from a valve hitting it? I'd presume everything needs a very close look. Was this damage done at track rpm, full throttle, etc? How are the bearings, rods, crank?
Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Pete and Andrew !

It is 100% sure that the damage is not coming from valve hitting. All the valves are in really good shape.
It happens on Track however the engine was already behaving in a strange way from first start (strange noise and limited power 180cv instead of the usual 200 or 210cv)
I'm not an expert however the previous owner and the engine builder went in court regarding this issue, and an independent expert was assigned to make a diagnostic.
He reaches the conclusion that the problem was a detonation thing that brings destruction of material on the Pistons and on the Head. But over rpm and valve hitting was definitely excluded from the reason of the problem.
Note that the erosion on the top of the monoliner is really small and located on the really top of the liner on just 3/4 inch large. It just looks like a Chamfer, so it is even above of the way of the top segment. This is why I was thinking that it may be reusable with this little isolated Chamfer.
 

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Would it affect the head gasket sealing ring?

Maybe if you o-ringed the top of the liners you would be okay ... ?
Pete
 

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Head can be repaired. No problem , seen worse cases than this coming out of repair fine. Monosleeve I have doubt if this was not in it before detotation allready.
Liner above this one seems to have the same (smaller). but not clear due to gasket in the way.
 

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If this went to court ... one has to ask why are these parts now not being used?

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks all for your return and advise.
Regarding, the parts (dismantled engine) are just laying on the shelves of a well know collector guy here in Europe, besides other lots of GTA and GTAm parts. 3 GTA engines in unknown conditions, 1 GTAM Engine (.not dismantled) in unknown condition, etc.
The reason why there wasn't used is quiet simple in my understanding. It was laying on a shelves for years with other hundreds of really special parts. The owner was already driving his race GTAm with 2 other Engines that was rotating (1 in the car for 6 race, the other out for maintenance), then switching... In addition of this 2 engines an impressive collection of parts and 1 other GTAm engine laying since years in the back of the garage. So, if you have too much parts, you cannot use them o_O
I'm not in such situation, but some TOP COLLECTORS are ...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I heard quiet the same!
It seems that they were revising the engine every 6 race/track use. Not sure if it is specific to Monosleeve or just because of the power getting out of these GTAM Testastreta engines ...
 

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Peek hp and torque starts dropping as soon as you start using an engine. I used to watch the highly competitive Mini 7 racing in New Zealand, and they would be doing valve grinds between races :eek:

So if you can afford it, AND it really matters, they are constantly getting worked on ... but I'm sure for historic racing (in the real world, not England where it is taken ridiculously seriously) you could do a couple of seasons
Pete
 

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I have no experience with these but I was told recently by a prominent builder/racer that the monosleeve motors had a very short useful life. Like a couple of races max...
Have to believe that was more a product of the racing demands and state of tune of the motor rather than the monosleeve itself. Top fuel dragster motors are rebuilt after mere seconds of race use, and it's not because the motors are weak or poorly designed!
 

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Have to believe that was more a product of the racing demands and state of tune of the motor rather than the monosleeve itself. Top fuel dragster motors are rebuilt after mere seconds of race use, and it's not because the motors are weak or poorly designed!
I totally agree but I also heard top fuel dragsters get terrible gas mileage too! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for all these advises and comments.

On my side, I'm not looking to build up a race winner engine/GTAm or Top fuel dragster, I'm just trying to evaluate if I will be able to get this 1750 dismantled GTAm back to life... even if I losse couple tenth of HP doesn't matter... My GTAm will be use mainly event/show driver, some gentleman Track use and some showroom... :love:

So, you may understand in this case that 180HP or 190HP would be more than OK ... even if some serious race guy would except 215CV out of it.
Anyhow, I let you know all if I'm succeed in bringing it back to life ! ;)
Cheers
 
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if you can afford it everything is rebuildable, there are new monosleves $$$$ you can by, also GTAm piston as per the picture also available, more $$$$, and on and on and on
 

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Discussion Starter #17
@ Quadrifollio : you are right however it may be tricky to find some parts. For example, I don't know any provider for the monosleeves and this is without talking about $$$$ . Do you know where to find monosleeves ? All the GTAm builder I know (OKP, Formulat GT, etc) or other Alfa race parts provider (Alfaholics) are not providing Monosleeve but replace it with 4 liners ... Any address for Monosleeve provider would be appreciated.
@Sergio105 : YEEESSSS !!!! you are right, it is a dream. Do you know the guys on the pictures? are they Iniezione Specialists ? I would dream of such Iniezione however seems to be really difficult or impossible to get it running well without having your mecanic guy on the right seat when you drive the car o_O
I didn't give up to find the right setup (Lucas, Spica or even Kugelfischer) for a 2L TestaStreta, and the right mecanic shop mastering it.
 

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@ Quadrifollio : you are right however it may be tricky to find some parts. For example, I don't know any provider for the monosleeves and this is without talking about $$$$ . Do you know where to find monosleeves ? All the GTAm builder I know (OKP, Formulat GT, etc) or other Alfa race parts provider (Alfaholics) are not providing Monosleeve but replace it with 4 liners ... Any address for Monosleeve provider would be appreciated.
there are oversize GTAm pistons, and rehone the monosleve to match the piston and have peace in mind, they come in 84mm - 84,2mm -84,4mm & 84,6mm
 

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@ Sergio105 [/ USER]: YEEESSSS !!!! hai ragione, è un sogno. Conosci i ragazzi nelle foto? sono specialisti in iniezione? Sognerei un'iniezione del genere però sembra davvero difficile o impossibile farlo funzionare bene senza avere il tuo meccanico sul sedile giusto quando guidi la macchinao_O
Non ho rinunciato a trovare il giusto setup (Lucas, Spica o anche Kugelfischer) per una TestaStreta 2L, e la giusta officina meccanica per padroneggiarlo.
[/ CITAZIONE]

Eh eh...The "guys" you see in the photo are Carlo and Giuliano Facetti. Last season one of the cars we follow on the track raced with an injection engine made personally by Carlo. Working with them is an incredible experience !!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
@Sergio105: Of course I heard about Facetti however never met or saw them. Great pictures and Great to know that they stay in Alfa Race preparation business... On my side I was last year in Varano (AlfaRevival Cup) and met Mr Monguzzi that is running also really stunning Iniezione based on Kugelfischer pump...

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